electrical advice

[Lon-Str]

Needing some electrical advice/ info. from you knowledgeable electrical folks. Going to run 150' of 10 ga. wire through 1 1/2'' conduit. I also want to run 80' of 220 in the same direction. Can both be run in the same conduit? I do admit to a bit challenged on the subject. Thanks.

[myredracer]

pianotuna wrote:
If you have LOTS of the 10/2 then run at least 3 sets of 10/2. That may end up giving you the same voltage drop as some where between #8 and #7. (yes I know #7 doesn't commonly exist).

I used double runs of 10/2 for the solar panels to lower voltage drop.

Except that code doesn't allow paralleling of smaller gauge wire. IIRC, it must be #1/0 (copper) min.

[pianotuna]

removed by me.

[myredracer]

Only time you can't run the wires in the same conduit is if they were supplied from two separately metered panels.

What are the loads you are wanting to supply? If they are a well pump, septic pump or other motor loads, you will have a high inrush current (up to about 6 times FLA) which can result in a very high voltage drop on startup and be hard on motors. If for motor loads, you could need to up the wire size.

The NEC code book has a table in it that covers conduit fill. This table from the 2017 edition of the NEC shows that you can pull up to 37 #10 wires in a 1-1/2" sched. 40 PVC conduit. I'd say the existing conduit is plenty big enough!

Have you check to see if the conduit is clear to pull the new wires? If it's been in there for some time, there's always the possibility it could be damaged. Doesn't happen very often (if installed properly) but it can.

I don't agree with solid copper being hard to pull in conduit in other than straight lines. It's done all the time out there. For long underground runs with bends or with heavy gauge wire (like say 200 amps for ex.) you just need to use lots of lube and "simply" pull HARD. There is no code rule on max. length of conduit but can only be max 4 @ 90 bends before needing a pull/junction box. They make various electric winches for pulling heavy gauge cables. A come-along can be used but is slooow. There are specs for max pulling tension on wires & cables. On 2 houses I've built, I've pulled 200 amp wire into around 200' underground runs in 2" conduit with up to 270 degrees of bends - bends were large radius type.

[azrving]

DrewE wrote:

azrving wrote:

You cant run romex in PVC.

You most certainly can run Romex in PVC or other conduit per code, but it has some limitations with respect to things like fill factor. This may be done, for example, to provide physical protection to an exposed section of a wire run.

What you can't do is run Romex, or some other "dry locations only" wire, through a conduit and have it magically become suitable for wet or damp locations. Conduit through wet or damp locations, such as outside or underground, requires wires inside it that are suitably rated for that sort of environment. Sometimes people get confused by this and take it to mean it's never permissible to run Romex through conduit since that's one of the primary places where conduit is required in typical residential wiring.

As a practical matter, pulling solid (non-stranded) cable through conduit is often impractically difficult, particularly if there's much other than a pure straight line run. It's just not that flexible.

Right I should have explained it completely since I did also say that I'm running several romex through 2 inch pvc to get out of the panel and into the attic. iirc it 's allowed for about 10 feet to protect romex. Thanks.

[DrewE]

azrving wrote:

You cant run romex in PVC.

You most certainly can run Romex in PVC or other conduit per code, but it has some limitations with respect to things like fill factor. This may be done, for example, to provide physical protection to an exposed section of a wire run.

What you can't do is run Romex, or some other "dry locations only" wire, through a conduit and have it magically become suitable for wet or damp locations. Conduit through wet or damp locations, such as outside or underground, requires wires inside it that are suitably rated for that sort of environment. Sometimes people get confused by this and take it to mean it's never permissible to run Romex through conduit since that's one of the primary places where conduit is required in typical residential wiring.

As a practical matter, pulling solid (non-stranded) cable through conduit is often impractically difficult, particularly if there's much other than a pure straight line run. It's just not that flexible.

[drsteve]

SaltiDawg wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:
...
And by the way that is the answer, If they fit then YES

This is not correct by Code.

It varies by locality. Check with the local building inspector's office.

[SaltiDawg]

wa8yxm wrote:
...
And by the way that is the answer, If they fit then YES

This is not correct by Code.

[wa8yxm]

Can both be run in the same conduit?
Depends. Will they fit? I"m thinking for that big a cable it may be you need larger conduit.

And by the way that is the answer, If they fit then YES

[enblethen]

The answer to question is yes 120 and 240 circuits can be in same conduit.
OP:
Big question is amerage of each circuit?
240 circuit using 10/2 with ground would not have a neutral to operate such things as RV.
1 1/2 conduit is good sized for running several circuits. Since you have wire for 120 volt circuit, go for it If you need 120/240 foue wire, you would need to buy wire. Then the suggestion of a sub panel is a good solution.

[Gdetrailer]

Lon-Str wrote:
Sorry I didn't make myself more clear. The reason for the 1 1/2 conduit is that I already have it. I am running 150' of 10/2 (already have it). Just wanted to know if it was ok to add another 10/2 roll in the same conduit. Thanks. Like I said, I'm a little out of my element here.

#10 at 150 foot isn't going to cut it!

You are going to see a large voltage drop of 9.6V (8%) at 30A for that distance.

Typically the max allowable drop is 3%..

#4 is going to give you 2.16% or about 2.58V drop..

Those numbers are for direct buried, conduit may give slightly different results..

You can use a voltage drop calculator to play with the numbers if you like..

VOLTAGE DROP CALCULATOR

Parameters I used was 120V, 3% drop, 150 ft run, 30A current at end of cable.

[azrving]

I just ran a 30 amp circuit to an RV box. We ran 6 gauge NM-B 75 ft through the attic to a plastic box in the attic and connected to thhn/thwn and ran through 1 inch pvc 18 inches under ground to the box 75 ft away. Total of 138 feet plus rv cord. Voltage is good and always above 117 v. I dont run the AC and Micro together but it will do it without popping the breaker.

The THHN at Home Depot is dual rated as THWN , it is needed for wet locations. Even though it is in electrical pvc it is still considered damp wet.

By code pvc has a percentage of "fill" rating. They dont want the pvc stuffed full because of temp ratings etc. So one thing you need to do is talk to an electrician etc to be sure your fill isn't over with whatever you end up with.

You also cant run romex in pvc
Right now it's at 117 volts/19 amps. The MN-B that we ran through the attic is also rated at 90 c or about 197 degrees. Three strands of 6 thwn had a lot of room left in the pvc but it is what the charts suggested. This panel is on the exterior of the house so I ran a 2 inch pvc stub out the top of the panel into an LB and then horizontal into the attic. That 2 in pvc has one 10 g, one 14 g, three 12g and one 6 g romex and it's probably about 1/2 full give or take. So I'd say that you can get X amount of conductors through X size of pvc but it may not be code. They want extra room in the pvc which you most likely have.


You cant run romex in PVC.

[wnjj]

Be sure to use wet rated wire if this conduit is outdoors or underground.

[Lon-Str]

Sorry I didn't make myself more clear. The reason for the 1 1/2 conduit is that I already have it. I am running 150' of 10/2 (already have it). Just wanted to know if it was ok to add another 10/2 roll in the same conduit. Thanks. Like I said, I'm a little out of my element here.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I lived in a cheap shack that had the home-builder run 10-gauge wire from the service drop a 140' distant. Get ready for a 1,600 watt load with 108 volt value.

8-gauge would service 25 amps