Electrical - High Voltage

[Carlos_Susan]

Hello Friends,
My name is Carlos and my wife's name is Susan. We are new to the Open Roads Forum so we hope we have reached the correct topic.

We have a 35' Cardinal Fifth Wheel (The Lodge) equipped for 50 AMP service. Since we are not full time campers, I like to keep the fifth wheel plugged in to residential power so that we can keep it cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Since we live on 50 acres, sometimes we like to sleep in the Lodge and make sure everything works fine.

This is our issue:

The Lodge is parked next to a barn that is a ways from the main house. We had an electrician review the layout with the purpose of installing a 50 AMP plug inside the barn so we could hook up. The electrician informed us that there was not sufficient power going into the barn for a 50 AMP plug, but that he could set up a 30 AMP plug. We understood and agreed to this since it is unlikely that we will need the full 50 AMP service while parked at the property.

The electrician installed the 30 AMP plug and we plugged in the Lodge, but my Good Governor showed that only 104 AMPS were coming into the Lodge. We then had the electrician install a power booster and now the Good Governor reads 138 AMPS when the AC is not operating. When the AC operates, the Good Governor reads 127-129. We know that a steady supply of 138 AMPS is not good. We have been all over the Internet looking for a surge protector or a voltage regulator, but are afraid that in either case these appliances will shut off the power to the Lodge due to the steady high voltage coming in. We have already invested over $800 for the 30 AMP plug plus the power booster installation.

Can someone give us some advice as to how we can neutralize the voltage coming into the Lodge?

Many thanks,

Carlos & Susan

[wa8yxm]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Again I shall ask this a different way...

The autoformers can INCREASE voltage when needed

Can they also DECREASE voltage when needed?

There is one model that dos both.. Hughes only increases.. And I forget the one that does both sorry..

You should have had the electrician put in a 50 amp outlet wired for 120/240 volts (if the barn can support that) but only 30 amp breakers.. Odds are very high this will 1: Solve your problem and 2: be more than you need... If running two A/Cs it will cut your voltage DROP by half. (Assuming RV is properly wired that is).

[Old-Biscuit]

Barn is 300' from house
Electrician ran #10 wire an additional 100' from barn panel to 30A receptacle
RV is an additional 30' form receptacle

430' of wire........104V at rv.

Sorry but electrician should have known.

Remove the installed booster,,,,,,,,,,get refund. Use refund to purchase Huhges Autoformer.
Plug Huhges Autoformer into 30A receptacle...plug in your rv power cord.

Should get 114V at rv which is border line low side but OK

ON EDIT:

AFTER looking at LINK question is
WHY isn't this booster set up as buck-boost voltage controller?
Such as 115V-130V

[pianotuna]

Hi Drew,

Here is a page with details:

http://www.hammondpowersolutions.com

DrewE wrote:


I suspect there are not two taps, but rather that 32V boost comes if you use it in a 240V circuit and 16V in a 120V circuit.

By the way, I suspect the barn is well over 40 years old. A subpanel in the mid 70's would not typically have screw-in fuses, and a large barn built at that time likely would have had more than a 30A 240V service installed. (At least in this part of the country, an old barn is more like 100 or 150 years old and built with post-and-beam construction.)

[DrewE]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

Do you know if the QC50ESCB is wired in as an autotransformer?

Since it says it's an isolation and buck/boost converter, it's not an autotransformer but rather a traditional transformer with two separate windings.

[DrewE]

enblethen wrote:
What type of wiring goes between the house and the barn? It could be possible and less expensive to have this wire upgraded especially if it is aerial. Underground cost would be too high.
Did the electrician say which of the two taps he used? 16 or 32? If he used the 32, he could switch to the 16 and see what the levels are.

I suspect there are not two taps, but rather that 32V boost comes if you use it in a 240V circuit and 16V in a 120V circuit.

By the way, I suspect the barn is well over 40 years old. A subpanel in the mid 70's would not typically have screw-in fuses, and a large barn built at that time likely would have had more than a 30A 240V service installed. (At least in this part of the country, an old barn is more like 100 or 150 years old and built with post-and-beam construction.)

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Do you know if the QC50ESCB is wired in as an autotransformer?

[enblethen]

What type of wiring goes between the house and the barn? It could be possible and less expensive to have this wire upgraded especially if it is aerial. Underground cost would be too high.
Did the electrician say which of the two taps he used? 16 or 32? If he used the 32, he could switch to the 16 and see what the levels are.

[time2roll]

Hughes Autoformer has a plug and outlet. Plug and play, no real install.
Just insert between the outlet and RV.

[Carlos_Susan]

Thank you all for your replies. I can see by some of the replies that perhaps more detail is needed from me. Susan and I have enjoyed three motor homes and three travel trailers. We have traveled and camped all over the United States and gone to many NASCAR events over the years. We have chosen this 35' Cardinal Fifth Wheel because it has all the amenities that we have always wanted, and because we intend to become full time campers in the near future. We are no strangers to owning a travel trailer and love the lifestyle.

But I am probably the worst when it comes to electrical issues, thus my confusion with volts and amps.
Some background facts: We do not own this property. We are leasing it while we build a new home, have been here a little over two months, and have no idea how much power comes into the main house, what type of breaker feeds the barn nor what type of wiring runs from the house to the barn. We simply wanted to have a 50 AMP plug installed in the barn so we could plug in our lodge. Thus the reason we contracted a licensed electrician. In our previous home we installed a 30 AMP plug for a 27' Fleetwood Terry trailer ourselves and everything worked perfectly for seven years, but this is not the same scenario and we felt more comfortable having an electrician do the work.

The barn is huge, sits about 300 feet away from the house and like the house, it is a big old barn, about 30 years old in our estimation. It has eleven stalls and an office with a working refrigerator and ample lighting throughout, although some of the fixtures have worn out and no longer work. We have asked for information from the owner but he is at a very advanced age and has not been able to supply us with sufficient information. The lodge is approximately 30' away from the barn.

We asked the electrician to survey the layout and give us an estimate to install a 50 AMP plug in the barn. He did walk back and forth from the house to the barn several times and spent some time at the breaker panel inside the house. And at the intake panel at the barn. He also used meters to determine the power running from here to there. As I stated in my earlier post, the electrician informed us that there was not sufficient power at the barn for a 50AMP plug, but that he could install a 30AMP plug. His estimate was $575. Going on the advice from the expert, we agreed. We would run our lodge on 30AMPS, and we knew what that entails.

The incoming panel at the barn has 2 fuses, not breakers. I believe the fuses are 240V, 30AMP. (I have pictures but have not figured out how to post on the Forum). The electrician tapped into this panel then ran a 10 gauge wire from the panel to the location for the 30 AMP plug for the lodge, a distance of about 100 feet. We then used the 50AMP electrical cord from the lodge with a 30 AMP adapter and plugged it in, resulting in the delivery of 104V to the lodge. The electrician suggested that the thing to do was to install a power booster. That would be another $126. Again, going on the advice from the expert, we agreed. This resulted in 138V to the lodge.

There is no separate meter to the barn. The electrician never mentioned or suggested upgrading/repairing/replacing the electrical service to the barn. Otherwise we would have considered that option, but it was never brought up. We are not looking to save some money; we just want it done right.

The power booster he installed, (sans an ability to post a photo) is:

• HPS (Hammond Power Solutions) HPS Universal Dry Type Isolation/Buck - Boost Transformer
• 120 X 240 V
• LV/ST 16V / 32V
• Part Number QC50ESCB
• KVA 0.50
• Type Q

We have unplugged the lodge to avoid damage. The electrician is saying that he will disconnect the power booster and give us a refund, and that if we purchase the Hughes Autoformer he will install it for us. That will be another $368 ++.

We are amazed that it can cost this much to install a plug and be able to plug in our lodge, and that we are having so many issues to begin with. It's either we contracted the wrong electrician, we need to rewire the whole thing from the house to the barn, or forget about having the lodge plugged in, which we do not want to do.

Yours frustrated,

Carlos & Susan

[Gdetrailer]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Gdetrailer........

You left out part of OPs statement

"The electrician installed the 30 AMP plug and we plugged in the Lodge, but my Good Governor showed that only 104 AMPS were coming into the Lodge. We then had the electrician install a power booster...." (OP meant VOLTS)

SO barn was getting low voltage to begin with.
Electrician should have noted that it wasn't adequate for 15A let alone 50A/30A etc.

Wire size is TOO SMALL

Electrician MAY have recommended upgrading run to barn, OP did not disclose that. That is what I would have recommended over installing a booster.

Low voltage could be from Power company, too light of gauge of wire for the run and or corroded/damaged wire and or connectors..

Booster transformer may have been the cheaper alternative given to the OP, but we will never know for sure since the OP did not disclose all the details..

But in the end the OP APPROVED whatever the electrician did.. Electrician most likely was following the OPs budget.

[time2roll]

Or the house itself is getting low voltage from the utility?
5 volts here, 6 volts there and soon you are at 104 or less.

If the barn cannot handle 20 amps something is wrong and needs to be fixed before the RV is connected.

I would have sooner installed a 14-20 outlet if power was that marginal. RV would have AC on one side and anything else on the other. Far better to have put that $800 toward a new barn feeder or have the utility correct the voltage at the house.

[Old-Biscuit]

Gdetrailer........

You left out part of OPs statement

"The electrician installed the 30 AMP plug and we plugged in the Lodge, but my Good Governor showed that only 104 AMPS were coming into the Lodge. We then had the electrician install a power booster...." (OP meant VOLTS)

SO barn was getting low voltage to begin with.
Electrician should have noted that it wasn't adequate for 15A let alone 50A/30A etc.

Wire size is TOO SMALL

[Gdetrailer]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

smkettner wrote:
If all is good and still have the voltage drop the wire is probably inadequate even for 30 amp.

Wire is inadequate for 15A.........measuring only 104V prior to voltage booster installation.

Electrician did OP wrong.

Umm.. no, not really. Per the OP's FIRST POST..

This is our issue:

The Lodge is parked next to a barn that is a ways from the main house. We had an electrician review the layout with the purpose of installing a 50 AMP plug inside the barn so we could hook up. The electrician informed us that there was not sufficient power going into the barn for a 50 AMP plug, but that he could set up a 30 AMP plug. We understood and agreed to this since it is unlikely that we will need the full 50 AMP service while parked at the property.

#1 Barn is a distance away from the main house.

#2 Barn already HAS ELECTRIC SERVICE.

#3 Electrician STATED that the existing feed to the barn is not sufficient to support OPs request of 50A.

#4 Electrician offered optional plan of 30A 120V.

#5 OP agreed and understood the optional plan of 30A 120V instead of 50A 120/240V

#6 OP figured in the end they would most likely NOT NEED full 50A 120/240V.

#7 OP tried running AC but voltage was too low for the EMS to allow power to the trailer.

#8 Electrician installed a boost transformer which corrected the low voltage but over corrected to over voltage.

The only thing I see that the electrician may have "done wrong" is to NOT recommend UPGRADING the electrical service to the barn INSTEAD of adding a boost transformer (for all we know the electrician MAY have suggested this but OP went with a boost transformer as a lower cost route).

However, we do not know where the barn is getting the power (IE direct from power co with separate meter or from house a long distance from the barn) nor do we know the actual line voltage which is coming into the OPs house, nor do we know what gauge and length the wire feeding the barn is.

It is entirely possible the existing wire would support 30A 120V in a barn but yet if the voltage supplied by the power company is a BIT low (say 110-115V) then the voltage at the barn will also be even lower due to line loses to the barn.

True story, Years ago I ran into a problem when I upgraded my sat system.. Every time the whole house A/C kicked on the new sat receiver would shut down..

I put my meter on the incoming line and found the voltage from the power co was dipping to 105/210V under the A/C start up surge. No surge voltage was 108/216V.

Looked at the sat receiver electrical specs and it required a MIN of 108V!

Keep in mind that when I bought the house I upgraded the electrical service from 60A to 200A.. so the problem was not on my end..

Called the electric co, they sent out a tech, the tech verified my findings then went out to the power pole and measured the voltage to the input of their transformer on the pole and found their line voltage was too low.

They declared that over the years many more homes have been built in my area but the lines have not been upgraded and are dropping too much voltage.

Their fix was to install three phase boost transformers 2 miles upstream from my house.

It fixed my sat problems!

They as of yet have still never upgraded the lines.

[Old-Biscuit]

smkettner wrote:
If all is good and still have the voltage drop the wire is probably inadequate even for 30 amp.

Wire is inadequate for 15A.........measuring only 104V prior to voltage booster installation.

Electrician did OP wrong.