EMS / Surge Protector

[sgtcoffey]

We are in the process of ordering our next home (Grand Design Momentum 397th). We will be getting a Surge protector / Energy management systems. Currently trying to chose between Hughes Voltage booster or their Surge protectors. What do you use/recommend. Any other brand better? Not worried about the cost since it will be protecting our home. Thanks for you Advice/Knowledge

[Bobbo]

RickLight wrote:
The short version is that such devices lower everyone else's voltage.

The pedestal breaker limits the amount of current that the autoformer can pull to prevent this very thing.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Come to México with an EMS and these problems do not exist. Period. The unit instantly faults and cannot restart. Problem solved.
.

[CA_Traveler]

In the last 16 years I've been in one 50A site with low voltage while I've been in many 30A sites with low voltage.

One of the primary reasons for low voltage is the increased power usage by RVs. 2 A/Cs on 30A and you're pushing the limit for example. 3 A/Cs on 50A and you're not even close to the limit. Owners not upgrading and maintaince are also cost related reasons.

[time2roll]

RickLight wrote:
5. Electrical engineering is far more complex than presented. The short version is that such devices lower everyone else's voltage. Maybe one in 10 is OK, but 3 in 10? More? Overheating wires throughout the park IS a hazard.

The correct solution is to properly engineer the park system. Park owners resist this answer due to the costs. Yet we all suffer with the danger and poor performance of inadequate power.

Please don't make it worse!

The voltage booster does not actually lower anyone else's voltage more than anyone else using electric power. You can just as easily run both air conditioners, water heater, fridge, electric range and drop the voltage of the supply loop. The effect is virtually the same when using the booster or not.

The real solution is to improve the supply circuit or turn off the accessories to reduce the load.

Otherwise it is just first come first served. Once the existing users drive the voltage down to 105 the rest should just do without. That is not really a solution either. Should I walk around and ask others to make do with less so I can just run my single A/C in my small trailer?

[pianotuna]

RickLight wrote:


5. Electrical engineering is far more complex than presented. The short version is that such devices lower everyone else's voltage. Maybe one in 10 is OK, but 3 in 10? More? Overheating wires throughout the park IS a hazard.

The autoformer does increase the number of amps drawn, when park voltage is low. The breaker on a 30 amp or 50 amp service prevents it from damaging the campground wiring. The main breaker for the loop also protects the campground wiring. You can't draw more than the breakers allow, at least not for very long.

If NEC wants to truly protect wiring in RV parks--then they need to have many fewer pedestals for each loop. Iirc currently 13 30 amp pedestals are allowed per loop. Demand is calculated using 41% of full capacity. Have these numbers been changed?

Also plug in devices are NOT covered by NEC. One could argue that an RV is a "plug in device". Or you could simply use an autoformer as a plug in device.

As for myself, I limit my draw to 80% of the available outlets. i.e. 12 amps on a 15 amp, 24, on a 30, and 40 on a 50 (40 for each leg). I supplement that by using a hybrid inverter charger.

[Lynnmor]

RickLight wrote:


The correct solution is to properly engineer the park system. Park owners resist this answer due to the costs. Yet we all suffer with the danger and poor performance of inadequate power.

I avoid the suffering by boosting my voltage, others can smoke their equipment all they want.

[RickLight]

This note is highly deceptive and has several flat out falsehoods.

https://hughesautoformers.com/run-your-autoformer-with-confidence-a-note-regarding-nfpa70

1. NFPA 70 starts as 'recommendations' and then is made law by cities and counties individually across the country. Some will make minor changes, a few do their own thing. But once adopted it's as legal as speed limits!

2. NFPA 70 is written not by 'a few board members' It is written by a many committees of industry experts, and then passes through a rigorous public review. In fact the whole process is extremely public with constant input. You can go read the discussions on the topic and get all the information anyone could want.

3. 2020 is the current version, not some idea for the future. The next version is underway and due May of 2022. The whole thing is done every 2 years.

4. The Hughes transformer is a rare type of autotransformer. On winding or 4 is of little importance. They are fine having their own name, but the NEC and I are simply using a generic term that would apply to any similar device by another company.

5. Electrical engineering is far more complex than presented. The short version is that such devices lower everyone else's voltage. Maybe one in 10 is OK, but 3 in 10? More? Overheating wires throughout the park IS a hazard.

The correct solution is to properly engineer the park system. Park owners resist this answer due to the costs. Yet we all suffer with the danger and poor performance of inadequate power.

Please don't make it worse!

[cavie]

wa8yxm wrote:

Lwiddis wrote:
Low voltage is as damaging as high voltage/surges. Hughes autoformer with surge protection.

The Hughes "Surge Supression" is a spike clipper Like those 10 buck power strips but a bit more capable.

It does nothing to protect you if you say plug into a 30 amp 240 volt outlet and though it will TELL you if there is say an OPEN ground. it won't protect you.

Both TRC/Surgwire and Progressive Industries (The top end units) Do that. Both also make lower units that just clip spikes.

444

You need to go to the web site and read up on Hughes Watchdog. they sell all manner of surge suppressors and full-blown EMS units in 30 and 50 amps. portable and hard-wired.

[cavie]

sgtcoffey wrote:
Hughes does not show a PI HW50C on their web site

Hughes EMS is called a Watchdog. the other is autoformer.

[wa8yxm]

Lwiddis wrote:
Low voltage is as damaging as high voltage/surges. Hughes autoformer with surge protection.

The Hughes "Surge Supression" is a spike clipper Like those 10 buck power strips but a bit more capable.

It does nothing to protect you if you say plug into a 30 amp 240 volt outlet and though it will TELL you if there is say an OPEN ground. it won't protect you.

Both TRC/Surgwire and Progressive Industries (The top end units) Do that. Both also make lower units that just clip spikes.

[cavie]

sgtcoffey wrote:
We are in the process of ordering our next home (Grand Design Momentum 397th). We will be getting a Surge protector / Energy management systems. Currently trying to chose between Hughes Voltage booster or their Surge protectors. What do you use/recommend. Any other brand better? Not worried about the cost since it will be protecting our home. Thanks for you Advice/Knowledge

You need both. EMS and Hughes Autoformer. Two different species of equipment that do different things.

https://hughesautoformers.com/run-your-autoformer-with-confidence-a-note-regarding-nfpa70/

https://rvmentor.com/2019/11/24/ems-vs-surge-suppressor/?fbclid=IwAR3yx1bcMOia0kJcJsOT-fPluEY-jPUA-rmNUwmN0s6qLo0_1M3_i4tQ-P0

https://thecampingnerd.com/rv-surge-protector-guard-ems-30-amp-50-amp/

[Lynnmor]

Get an autoformer while you still can, apparently the low information crowd is taking over the asylum.

[ORbiker]

I mounted the hardwired Progressive EMS-HW50C here in our 2018 374TH-R Solitude. KEN

[RickLight]

Avoid the autotransformer! (voltage booster)

Electrical codes are changing to ban autotransformers, and some parks are already forbidding them. I'm not sure how they can enforce that, but this is the trend. In the long run they will be usless.