ethanol treatment & generators

[mockturtle]

My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

[Denny___Jami]

HiTech wrote:
Yes they are sealed (sort of - still have that charcoal vent canister i think). But they actually still evaporate a lot, though less than in the past. But you see it more in Arizona than Nebraska. The Places like Death Valley give the OEMs fits passing the evaporative tests required by the EPA.

Jim

That's not the only thing that evaporates in Death Valley 😉

[HiTech]

Yes they are sealed (sort of - still have that charcoal vent canister i think). But they actually still evaporate a lot, though less than in the past. But you see it more in Arizona than Nebraska. The Places like Death Valley give the OEMs fits passing the evaporative tests required by the EPA.

Jim

[Denny___Jami]

Adam-12 wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:



Well I guess I've been real lucky considering we have run it in 3 cars the oldest was a 89 EFI and the newest is a 01 EFI and 5 trucks with the oldest being a 81 with a carburetor and the newest 2000, I'm not including the the one we just bought because it only has 120 miles on it and it's a Flex Fuel.

Denny

Denny it's not as bad "running" the fuel. It's the storage issue with ethanol based fuels that the #1 problem for most people. Research what Harley Davidson did and what happened to their engines with the E fuels. That's just one example.

In the end, I'm glad your cars have not been "infected"......... I'm happy for you. My message is that you shouldn't tell others to do "nothing" about a well documented problem that's happened to many across the country. Especially, when there are some easy, simple and cheap preventative measures folks could do to help thwart off certain issues with E formulated fuels.

Peace out hillbilly.

I look at it this way we have been storing our car for 7 years for 7 months to 2 years at a time with E10 with no ill affects and we will continue doing so because it works, remember all newer cars have sealed fuel systems so there is very little evaporation or anyway of outside elements getting in.

Denny

[Adam-12]

HiTech wrote:
Adam when I was in the car business we were modifying fuel lines to handle ethanol in the 80's and 90s. Cars have been designed to run well with E10 for over two decades now. Yes you do get worse fuel economy. Yes, if you have a high compression engine or forced induction, you will get More horsepower as well.

It's generally worse fuel than pure gas. But it's not that modern engines and fuel systems have any special problem with it.

Jim

I agree with you Jim. However, modifying the older engines, still doesn't solve the greater water accumulation caused by alcohol which then sits in the float bowl of a generator during storage.

[HiTech]

Adam when I was in the car business we were modifying fuel lines to handle ethanol in the 80's and 90s. Cars have been designed to run well with E10 for over two decades now. Yes you do get worse fuel economy. Yes, if you have a high compression engine or forced induction, you will get More horsepower as well.

It's generally worse fuel than pure gas. But it's not that modern engines and fuel systems have any special problem with it.

Jim

[MEXICOWANDERER]

E-200
Yeah!

Everclear!

Forget the car take a taxi and mix a Chevron Gimlet

[Adam-12]

Denny & Jami wrote:



Well I guess I've been real lucky considering we have run it in 3 cars the oldest was a 89 EFI and the newest is a 01 EFI and 5 trucks with the oldest being a 81 with a carburetor and the newest 2000, I'm not including the the one we just bought because it only has 120 miles on it and it's a Flex Fuel.

Denny

Denny it's not as bad "running" the fuel. It's the storage issue with ethanol based fuels that the #1 problem for most people. Research what Harley Davidson did and what happened to their engines with the E fuels. That's just one example.

In the end, I'm glad your cars have not been "infected"......... I'm happy for you. My message is that you shouldn't tell others to do "nothing" about a well documented problem that's happened to many across the country. Especially, when there are some easy, simple and cheap preventative measures folks could do to help thwart off certain issues with E formulated fuels.

Peace out hillbilly.

[Denny___Jami]

Adam-12 wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:

Adam-12 wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

Here is my solution; First change where you are buying gas to make sure that that's not the problem. Stop using treatments because they are not necessary with 10% ethanol, ethanol is a good cleaner and it will remove any dirt or moisture from your system but that crude has to go somewhere so it has to be burned making it run rough until it'a all gone. Also remember that all the crude that's in the stations tanks also will get cleaned out and you will end up burning it also. I've been running my generators, lawn mowers, outboards, trucks and cars for years without any problems. We have burned gas in 49 states and the only state that has was worse than Washington for quality is Alaska with Oregon and California right behind. We have also stored our car in our garage for two years with a full tank of 10% ethanol with no problems, we just got back after 8 months this time and it started right up and ran just like it did.

If you start using ethanol in a car or truck that has never had it before it will rough and the mileage will drop because it'a cleaning out your system.

Denny

1). Most places now only have E10 gasoline.
2). It is a well documented fact that Ethanol is NOT a problem free fuel. On the contrary, ethanol ATTRACTS MOISTURE (water). Water in an internal combustion, air aspirated engine is BAD.
3). Ethanol produces varnish almost four times sooner than non-Ethanol contained fuels.
4). Ethanol does "clean," by removing any and all oil based solution that's in gasoline. It also drys/cracks many plastics and rubber hoses, gaskets and liners.
5). E10 formulated gasoline has a documented record of being 10% LESS efficient in complete combustion, than non E10 fuels. This means that with E10 based fuel, ones's MPG's go DOWN by 8-10%.

About the only good thing E10 based fuel does, is burn cleaner. However, there is a big sacrifice to that benefit. ie. less MPG's; accelerated moisture and varnish damage to an engine and/or its components; and higher Maintenence or repair costs with older engines.

A fuel supplement that is petroleum based, does in fact help prevent E10 fuel damage and accelerated wear, due to a complete lack of any lubricating qualities.

I've been running 10% for the last 25 years in both my play and work trucks and cars for a total of well over 600K miles (I never really keep track) without one problem. The V10 truck I just traded had 129K miles on it and 100K of that was pulling our trailer and it had no engine or fuel problems at all same with my last work truck at 100K when I retired, our 12 year old GM car has also had nothing but E10 from new same thing no problems even after sitting for 2 years with E10 in the tank. I've changed between E10 and straight gas pulling our trailer and there was no difference in mileage. I have never run any kind of a fuel supplement of any kind and never will.

Denny

Denny, you're just one of the lucky ones with that stuff, that's all.

Well I guess I've been real lucky considering we have run it in 3 cars the oldest was a 89 EFI and the newest is a 01 EFI and 5 trucks with the oldest being a 81 with a carburetor and the newest 2000, I'm not including the the one we just bought because it only has 120 miles on it and it's a Flex Fuel.

Denny

[Adam-12]

Denny & Jami wrote:

Adam-12 wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

Here is my solution; First change where you are buying gas to make sure that that's not the problem. Stop using treatments because they are not necessary with 10% ethanol, ethanol is a good cleaner and it will remove any dirt or moisture from your system but that crude has to go somewhere so it has to be burned making it run rough until it'a all gone. Also remember that all the crude that's in the stations tanks also will get cleaned out and you will end up burning it also. I've been running my generators, lawn mowers, outboards, trucks and cars for years without any problems. We have burned gas in 49 states and the only state that has was worse than Washington for quality is Alaska with Oregon and California right behind. We have also stored our car in our garage for two years with a full tank of 10% ethanol with no problems, we just got back after 8 months this time and it started right up and ran just like it did.

If you start using ethanol in a car or truck that has never had it before it will rough and the mileage will drop because it'a cleaning out your system.

Denny

1). Most places now only have E10 gasoline.
2). It is a well documented fact that Ethanol is NOT a problem free fuel. On the contrary, ethanol ATTRACTS MOISTURE (water). Water in an internal combustion, air aspirated engine is BAD.
3). Ethanol produces varnish almost four times sooner than non-Ethanol contained fuels.
4). Ethanol does "clean," by removing any and all oil based solution that's in gasoline. It also drys/cracks many plastics and rubber hoses, gaskets and liners.
5). E10 formulated gasoline has a documented record of being 10% LESS efficient in complete combustion, than non E10 fuels. This means that with E10 based fuel, ones's MPG's go DOWN by 8-10%.

About the only good thing E10 based fuel does, is burn cleaner. However, there is a big sacrifice to that benefit. ie. less MPG's; accelerated moisture and varnish damage to an engine and/or its components; and higher Maintenence or repair costs with older engines.

A fuel supplement that is petroleum based, does in fact help prevent E10 fuel damage and accelerated wear, due to a complete lack of any lubricating qualities.

I've been running 10% for the last 25 years in both my play and work trucks and cars for a total of well over 600K miles (I never really keep track) without one problem. The V10 truck I just traded had 129K miles on it and 100K of that was pulling our trailer and it had no engine or fuel problems at all same with my last work truck at 100K when I retired, our 12 year old GM car has also had nothing but E10 from new same thing no problems even after sitting for 2 years with E10 in the tank. I've changed between E10 and straight gas pulling our trailer and there was no difference in mileage. I have never run any kind of a fuel supplement of any kind and never will.

Denny

A little history about ethanol any why it screws up engines....
Ethanol fuel has been around for decades. I know old cars made by Ford were modified to run on part ethanol, part gasoline. Hence the old "moonshine engines" history came from.

That being said, not until the early 2000's did modern car manufacturers start designing engine components to run on Ethanol mixed gas (specifically E10). When lead was forced out, MTBE replaced it. When it was discovered that MTBE contaminated ground water and is a highly dangerous carcinogen, "they" decided to find a cure all.

During winter months, an oxygenated fuel was required to keep CO2 emissions down. So, good old alcohol (ethanol) was brought back into the mix to meet this requirement. Well, with new cars since the 80's came fuel injection (replacing carburetors en masse) and new plastics and reformulated rubber (hoses, gaskets etc). The problem was/is is that the modern day components of an engine never caught up with the mass production formula of ethanol based fuels once again. The alcohol was damaging plastics, drying and disintegrating petroleum based gaskets and rubber hoses and producing varnish in fuel injectors. This was all a result of not the ethanol itself, but the attraction of WATER brought on by the alcohol.

Have you seen the "flex fuel" labeled cars on the road???? That's to run E10, (E15 is coming) E20 and E85 formulated gasoline. The car companies have been modifying engine components to handle to effects of alcohol formulated fuels for the present and future.

Now, just because YOUR cars haven't had any ill effects to E10 gasoline, doesn't mean nobody else has. It's like saying just because you've never had chicken pox, therefore nobody else will get it.

There are many factors associated with E10 fuel problems. Those variables are: Gas station fuel tank contamination by region; refinery process and quality control by region; temperature fluctuations; humidity levels; poor fuel storage environment; and mostly miniscule water accumulation within one's own fuel tank.

You've never had ethanol fuel problems, well good for you! I suggest you also buy a lottery ticket. The fact however is that more people have had engine problems (as listed earlier) in most modern day engines since the heavy introduction of ethanol fuels in the early 2000's. (Specifically around 2005 and later).

Auto makers admitted that E10 fuels were also less fuel efficient, but that's another topic. I've never had Tuberculosis, but I would never tell people that they won't get it either. Stating that you've "stored your car" with E10 fuel for "two years" and with no ill effect whatsoever is just pure luck. Suggesting to people not to take precautions and preventative measures with this******fuel is just unwise and unfair.

Denny, you're just one of the lucky ones with that stuff, that's all.

[Tom_M1]

I have a 1000 watt Yamaha generator that wouldn't run smoothly unless I used partial choke. I started using alcohol free gas and now it runs fine without choke.

A simple test to check if the gasoline you buy is alcohol free:

Fill a tall skinny jar such as an olive jar 1/4 full with water and mark this level.
Add gasoline until almost full, cover, and shake vigorously.
Wait until water settles back to bottom.

If the gasoline is alcohol free the water will settle back to the starting level. If the gasoline contains alcohol some of the water will be absorbed and the water that settles will be lower than the starting level.

[Denny___Jami]

Adam-12 wrote:

Denny & Jami wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

Here is my solution; First change where you are buying gas to make sure that that's not the problem. Stop using treatments because they are not necessary with 10% ethanol, ethanol is a good cleaner and it will remove any dirt or moisture from your system but that crude has to go somewhere so it has to be burned making it run rough until it'a all gone. Also remember that all the crude that's in the stations tanks also will get cleaned out and you will end up burning it also. I've been running my generators, lawn mowers, outboards, trucks and cars for years without any problems. We have burned gas in 49 states and the only state that has was worse than Washington for quality is Alaska with Oregon and California right behind. We have also stored our car in our garage for two years with a full tank of 10% ethanol with no problems, we just got back after 8 months this time and it started right up and ran just like it did.

If you start using ethanol in a car or truck that has never had it before it will rough and the mileage will drop because it'a cleaning out your system.

Denny

1). Most places now only have E10 gasoline.
2). It is a well documented fact that Ethanol is NOT a problem free fuel. On the contrary, ethanol ATTRACTS MOISTURE (water). Water in an internal combustion, air aspirated engine is BAD.
3). Ethanol produces varnish almost four times sooner than non-Ethanol contained fuels.
4). Ethanol does "clean," by removing any and all oil based solution that's in gasoline. It also drys/cracks many plastics and rubber hoses, gaskets and liners.
5). E10 formulated gasoline has a documented record of being 10% LESS efficient in complete combustion, than non E10 fuels. This means that with E10 based fuel, ones's MPG's go DOWN by 8-10%.

About the only good thing E10 based fuel does, is burn cleaner. However, there is a big sacrifice to that benefit. ie. less MPG's; accelerated moisture and varnish damage to an engine and/or its components; and higher Maintenence or repair costs with older engines.

A fuel supplement that is petroleum based, does in fact help prevent E10 fuel damage and accelerated wear, due to a complete lack of any lubricating qualities.

I've been running 10% for the last 25 years in both my play and work trucks and cars for a total of well over 600K miles (I never really keep track) without one problem. The V10 truck I just traded had 129K miles on it and 100K of that was pulling our trailer and it had no engine or fuel problems at all same with my last work truck at 100K when I retired, our 12 year old GM car has also had nothing but E10 from new same thing no problems even after sitting for 2 years with E10 in the tank. I've changed between E10 and straight gas pulling our trailer and there was no difference in mileage. I have never run any kind of a fuel supplement of any kind and never will.

Denny

[Adam-12]

Denny & Jami wrote:

mockturtle wrote:
My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

Here is my solution; First change where you are buying gas to make sure that that's not the problem. Stop using treatments because they are not necessary with 10% ethanol, ethanol is a good cleaner and it will remove any dirt or moisture from your system but that crude has to go somewhere so it has to be burned making it run rough until it'a all gone. Also remember that all the crude that's in the stations tanks also will get cleaned out and you will end up burning it also. I've been running my generators, lawn mowers, outboards, trucks and cars for years without any problems. We have burned gas in 49 states and the only state that has was worse than Washington for quality is Alaska with Oregon and California right behind. We have also stored our car in our garage for two years with a full tank of 10% ethanol with no problems, we just got back after 8 months this time and it started right up and ran just like it did.

If you start using ethanol in a car or truck that has never had it before it will rough and the mileage will drop because it'a cleaning out your system.

Denny

1). Most places now only have E10 gasoline.
2). It is a well documented fact that Ethanol is NOT a problem free fuel. On the contrary, ethanol ATTRACTS MOISTURE (water). Water in an internal combustion, air aspirated engine is BAD.
3). Ethanol produces varnish almost four times sooner than non-Ethanol contained fuels.
4). Ethanol does "clean," by removing any and all oil based solution that's in gasoline. It also drys/cracks many plastics and rubber hoses, gaskets and liners.
5). E10 formulated gasoline has a documented record of being 10% LESS efficient in complete combustion, than non E10 fuels. This means that with E10 based fuel, ones's MPG's go DOWN by 8-10%.

About the only good thing E10 based fuel does, is burn cleaner. However, there is a big sacrifice to that benefit. ie. less MPG's; accelerated moisture and varnish damage to an engine and/or its components; and higher Maintenence or repair costs with older engines.

A fuel supplement that is petroleum based, does in fact help prevent E10 fuel damage and accelerated wear, due to a complete lack of any lubricating qualities.

[Denny___Jami]

mockturtle wrote:
My mechanic suggests I use an ethanol treatment in my fuel tank to counteract the effects of ethanol on my generator and I have found this to work very well. It had been running a little rough even though I just had the carb cleaned. However, it gets expensive with a 55 gallon fuel tank. Is there any other solution to this problem? (I am not a mechanic).

Here is my solution; First change where you are buying gas to make sure that that's not the problem. Stop using treatments because they are not necessary with 10% ethanol, ethanol is a good cleaner and it will remove any dirt or moisture from your system but that crude has to go somewhere so it has to be burned making it run rough until it'a all gone. Also remember that all the crude that's in the stations tanks also will get cleaned out and you will end up burning it also. I've been running my generators, lawn mowers, outboards, trucks and cars for years without any problems. We have burned gas in 49 states and the only state that has was worse than Washington for quality is Alaska with Oregon and California right behind. We have also stored our car in our garage for two years with a full tank of 10% ethanol with no problems, we just got back after 8 months this time and it started right up and ran just like it did.

If you start using ethanol in a car or truck that has never had it before it will rough and the mileage will drop because it'a cleaning out your system.

Denny

[Adam-12]

I use these two products to counter the moisture gathering effects of E10 gasoline...........

Marvel Mystery oil and SeaFoam. SeaFoam claims to absorb or bind the moisture in E10 gasoline, while the MMO prevents rust and varnish from moisture left or collected in the fuel.

Just follow the directions on the cans/bottles. Don't overdue it either. Follow exactly and you'll be fine. My gennys, cars, mowers, chainsaws all run tip top shape.