Honda 2000 gen starts my AC....

[lawrosa]

I borrowed my work generator on a new job I started. It starts my 13.5K btu A/C. This is a 2000 watt Honda.. Say 13.3 amps on the 120v outlet

My other buddy bought the harbor freight 2200 watt inverter gen.. it dont start it at all.. Mine or his... goes into overload too quick..

Anyone else running their a/c on a honda 2000?

Mind you I started 3 out of 4 times before going to overload.. Batterys fully charges and no other loads. I run a/c on fan on high for few moments that switch to high cool..

This is a duo therm unit..

I then brought it to my buddy s and it starts his Coleman a/c on his living light..

Anyone have any advice on this??/

[otrfun]

SoundGuy wrote:
Try this same test when it's 95F, raise the elevation, and chances are highly in favour of your single EU2000i falling flat on it's face when trying to start a typical 13.5K BTU A/C.

With your use of the word "typical", it's nice to see you at least acknowledge that not all 13.5k BTU a/c are created equal.

To try and help make this discussion a bit less redundant, and more productive, I'd like to emphasize most agree and acknowledge (including myself) that one EU2000i will NOT reliably start many 13.5k BTU a/c's. This is common knowledge and very, very, very, very, very old news. We don't need to beat a dead horse into the ground.

I ask: What is so difficult about acknowledging the fact there ARE a small number of very efficient 13.5k BTU a/c's that one EU2000i can reliably start/run with the Eco mode on at elevation and at high, desert temps? Why do we continue to ignore specific LRA values? Acknowledging these values during these various online discussions will do much to make these discussions much more objective and quantifiable in nature.

Ignoring LRA and just focusing on BTU ratings, elevation, and temperature, while discussing whether or not one EU2000i will start/run a given a/c unit, is much like ignoring payload and tongue weight and just focusing on tow capacity and TT weight while discussing whether or not a 1/2-ton truck is capable of towing a given TT.

What's the point?

[road-runner]

otrfun wrote:

If one takes the time to properly match components in any given system, sometimes it's surprising what can be accomplished.

This statement is the key. In a prior rig I ran a 13.5k standard efficiency Brisk Air off the eu2000i with fairly good results. One example is it ran reliably in 100* weather at 500 feet elevation, and the generator was spinning a bit below its maximum RPM. Above 3000 feet reliability was pretty iffy. I suspect a good number of those who have tried it and failed either didn't turn off the power converter or had the fridge set on auto. To add to the eco mode discussion, when running the air conditioner, the generator is running above the non-eco idle speed, so the eco switch will have no effect. I started the air conditioner once in eco mode, and the sound of the generator hanging on the edge of shutdown for about 5 seconds was ugly enough that I never tried it again.

[SoundGuy]

lawrosa wrote:
Well I took some readings.. This honda 200 starts the 13.5 duo therm A/C no problem..

SoundGuy wrote:
Unfortunately your results are also irrelevant without also offering details about elevation, outside ambient temperature, whether the A/C in question is or is not equipped with a hard start cap, even fan speed plays a role.

lawrosa wrote:
It was 84F out when I did my test. I am 100 ft above sealevel here in NJ. Flatland mostly unless you get into the mountains of north jersey. Highest elevation in NJ is 2000 feet I believ.

The a/c has the supco spp6..

supco spp6 hard start cap

My test is not irrelevant as these are the #'s running the a/c. Aside from starting the a/c if its hot out these #'s should remain the same, no?

So you're in fact confirming just what I said myself. 😉 Try this same test when it's 95F, raise the elevation, and chances are highly in favour of your single EU2000i falling flat on it's face when trying to start a typical 13.5K BTU A/C. The hotter it is outside the greater will be compressor head pressure, resulting in an even higher draw when that compressor attempts to start or re-start ... add increased elevation and the situation becomes even worse as the genset's efficiency drops significantly. Camp at sea level in temps no greater than 85F and anyone of us who owns an EU2000i stands a reasonable chance our genset will successfully start and run a typical 13.5K BTU A.C - change those conditions and all that success goes out the door. 😞

[lawrosa]

one EU2000i is capable of providing suitable, reliable power to keep an RV'rs TT cool---with the Eco mode on.

Eco mode was off....

After the a/c started I could of probably put it on eco mode, but not sure how much if any it would throttle down... Its quiet enough already...LOL

[otrfun]

SoundGuy wrote:

lawrosa wrote:
Well I took some readings.. This honda 200 starts the 13.5 duo therm A/C no problem..

Unfortunately your results are also irrelevant without also offering details about elevation, outside ambient temperature, whether the A/C in question is or is not equipped with a hard start cap, even fan speed plays a role. I too can successfully start my hard start equipped 13.5K BTU Dometic Brisk II with my EU2000i but that too is meaningless when the elevation here isn't much above sea level and ambient temps are significantly lower now that we're well into fall. 😞 In the heat of summer when it's really humid and ambient temps are well into the 90s and therefore when I'd most want to run A/C there's no way my EU2000i will start this A/C. 😞

SoundGuy, your point is taken. However, let's give lawrosa some credit for taking the time to provide more realworld operating info than the majority of posts here.

If one picks the right 13.5k BTU a/c, one EU2000i is capable of providing suitable, reliable power to keep an RV'rs TT cool---with the Eco mode on. As for all this doomsday talk of an EU2000i failing at elevation or high ambient temps, I've seen two, paralleled Honda EU2000i's, open-frame 4000w generators, and 50kw commercial generators fail under extreme conditions. Everything has a breaking point.

If one takes the time to properly match components in any given system, sometimes it's surprising what can be accomplished.

In any case, if you read my previous post in this thread I give all the "relevant" detail you requested to clarify my position about the EU2000i.

[lawrosa]

SoundGuy wrote:

lawrosa wrote:
Well I took some readings.. This honda 200 starts the 13.5 duo therm A/C no problem..

Unfortunately your results are also irrelevant without also offering details about elevation, outside ambient temperature, whether the A/C in question is or is not equipped with a hard start cap, even fan speed plays a role. I too can successfully start my hard start equipped 13.5K BTU Dometic Brisk II with my EU2000i but that too is meaningless when the elevation here isn't much above sea level and ambient temps are significantly lower now that we're well into fall. 😞 In the heat of summer when it's really humid and ambient temps are well into the 90s and therefore when I'd most want to run A/C there's no way my EU2000i will start this A/C. 😞

It was 84F out when I did my test. I am 100 ft above sealevel here in NJ. Flatland mostly unless you get into the mountains of north jersey. Highest elevation in NJ is 2000 feet I believ.

The a/c has the supco spp6..

supco spp6 hard start cap

My test is not irrelevant as these are the #'s running the a/c. Aside from starting the a/c if its hot out these #'s should remain the same, no?

[SoundGuy]

lawrosa wrote:
Well I took some readings.. This honda 200 starts the 13.5 duo therm A/C no problem..

Unfortunately your results are also irrelevant without also offering details about elevation, outside ambient temperature, whether the A/C in question is or is not equipped with a hard start cap, even fan speed plays a role. I too can successfully start my hard start equipped 13.5K BTU Dometic Brisk II with my EU2000i but that too is meaningless when the elevation here isn't much above sea level and ambient temps are significantly lower now that we're well into fall. 😞 In the heat of summer when it's really humid and ambient temps are well into the 90s and therefore when I'd most want to run A/C there's no way my EU2000i will start this A/C. 😞

[lawrosa]

However, to imply that an EU2000i is operating at 100% when powering ANY 13.5k BTU a/c at sea level is simply incorrect.

Thats right. It is simply incorrect and here are hard #'s




Well I took some readings.. This honda 2000 starts the 13.5 duo therm A/C no problem..

Plugged into killowatt meter. Turned off converter charging side.

( converter was showing 3.19 amps /172 watts draw trying to charge the batterys hence why I turned off the charging side. That 3 amps could be the factor starting the a/c. Once a/c was started I flipped the convertor back on, Gen ran no problems.)



With a/c running gen shows 124.2 volts output. ( 126v with no laods)





9.19 amp draw with a/c running..



1005 watts being drawn... Not bad. Alittle more then 50% capacity of the gen.




Right at 60 hz...




Its also the quietest gen I ever heard...

With that said it would be nice boondocking as we had this summer in 90f plus weather to be able to cool down the camper mid day...

[otrfun]

Huntindog wrote:
Probably because the marine world is different than the RV world. 99% of the boats operate at sea level. RVs.... Not so much

Chris Bryant wrote:
Huntingdog does have a point, in that the Honda 2K will derate to a point below the running draw of the air, at which point easy starting is moot.

I agree elevation is going to be an issue with ANY naturally aspirated engine if it is already operating at 100% at sea level.

However, to imply that an EU2000i is operating at 100% when powering ANY 13.5k BTU a/c at sea level is simply incorrect.

Bottom line, not all 13.5k BTU a/c units are created equal. One of my earlier posts in this thread detailed some of the very important differences.

[Chris_Bryant]

otrfun wrote:

If, indeed, it does work as advertised in the marine world, one has to wonder why its reputation hasn't permeated the RV world after all these years. Is it a marketing, or performance, issue?

I'm thinking it's a cost issue- adding a $500 start kit to a $500 air conditioner to keep from spending another $900 on another Honda 2K.

Huntingdog does have a point, in that the Honda 2K will derate to a point below the running draw of the air, at which point easy starting is moot.

[Huntindog]

otrfun wrote:

Chris Bryant wrote:
Here is an old thread about starting a 13.5k on a Honda 2k with a tech from Dometic talking about their Smart Start, which is unlike any other start kit, but sold through their marine division. They are all running 16k btu air conditioners.

I researched this Dometic Marine SmartStart Soft Starter when I was reviewing all my 13.5k BTU a/c and generator options last year.

If it wasn't for the high cost ($450-$500), along with the potential risk (of it not working as advertised), I would have tried one.

If, indeed, it does work as advertised in the marine world, one has to wonder why its reputation hasn't permeated the RV world after all these years. Is it a marketing, or performance, issue?

Probably because the marine world is different than the RV world. 99% of the boats operate at sea level. RVs.... Not so much

[otrfun]

Chris Bryant wrote:
Here is an old thread about starting a 13.5k on a Honda 2k with a tech from Dometic talking about their Smart Start, which is unlike any other start kit, but sold through their marine division. They are all running 16k btu air conditioners.

I researched this Dometic Marine SmartStart Soft Starter when I was reviewing all my 13.5k BTU a/c and generator options last year.

If it wasn't for the high cost ($450-$500), along with the potential risk (of it not working as advertised), I would have tried one.

If, indeed, it does work as advertised in the marine world, one has to wonder why its reputation hasn't permeated the RV world after all these years. Is it a marketing, or performance, issue?

[Chris_Bryant]

Here is an old thread about starting a 13.5k on a Honda 2k with a tech from Dometic talking about their Smart Start, which is unlike any other start kit, but sold through their marine division. They are all running 16k btu air conditioners.

[otrfun]

Chum lee wrote:
Lets be clear. Most 13.5 k BTU AC units will RUN on a 2000W Honda genny. The real question is, "Will they reliably/consistently start?" At sea level (or close) maybe. At 8,000 feet on a hot day, probably not. As previously mentioned LRA, or Locked Rotor Amps, is the reason. The AC may RUN just fine on 10-12 amps @ 120 volts, but to get everything spinning the AC may require up to about 80% more power (while maintaining close to 120 volts) for a few seconds depending on too many variables to mention. Once running, chances are, you'll be fine, until the compressor shuts off and then tries to restart. That's why I have a 4000 watt genny. The AC ALWAYS starts, even with the coffee maker and fridge running on electricity. No free lunch!

Chum lee

Your reply is clear, up to a point.

However, it's not simply all about LRA. You left out the other half of the equation: the EU2000i's inrush current capability numerically quantified in amps.

Armed with this critical piece of data AND the LRA, one can open up options beyond simply purchasing a larger generator.