How long will single battery last with heater running?

[philh]

We may have our first opportunity to dry camp mid winter for one night. Do I stand a chance of surviving on a single deep cycle 12V battery, or should I just plan on buying my first i2000?

[qtla9111]

We have two 6V batteries that are five years old and getting a bit ragged. We use a cheap Sunbeam electric blanket that we bought at Walmart. We put it under the fitted sheet and keep it on the lowest setting L (L to 10). It generates a lot of heat and being under the fitted sheet and having a blanket on top of you keeps you toasty warm.

I went out and turned it on this afternoon, even though we have solar and it's already 6:15 p.m, the solar is covered by trees and it is cloudy and raining so there is little to nothing coming into the batteries. The blanket is rolled up and covered with a blanket as if we were in bed.

The reading has gone from 12.6 to 12.5 and it's been over two hours. Keep it simple and enjoy the cold winter. When we were in Canada last May at Botanie Lake in Lytton, BC, we used our Little Buddy heater. We were at 6500ft and it was -6C. On the low setting we were burning up, we had two vents and a window cracked. Worked great. We purposely left our Honda 2000 at home and we did just fine on battery and the LB heater.

I recommend the electric blanket. It's a real jewel.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

brulaz wrote:
. . .
We've really noticed the reduced condensation with dual pane windows.
. . .

+1

Camping in the same place at the same time of year, we've gone from tons of condensation to virtually none since we went to a rig with dual pane glass. It is hard to compare heat loss and other effects, since the rigs are so different in so many ways, but being rid of the condensation curse alone makes it worth it.

Wayne

[brulaz]

jhilley wrote:
I am not convinced of the worth of dual pane windows. I have two Winnebago motor homes, an Adventurer with dual pane windows and a Brave without. I don't see a significant difference.
...

We've really noticed the reduced condensation with dual pane windows.

Have also noticed reduced noise and draftiness, but that could also be the thicker walls and improved general construction in our new 4 season trailer.

[jhilley]

I am not convinced of the worth of dual pane windows. I have two Winnebago motor homes, an Adventurer with dual pane windows and a Brave without. I don't see a significant difference. I need to replace the drivers side front quarter window for the second time. The front window is a big loss of heat, so preventing that makes a big difference.

We built a new house last winter so lived in the 38' Adventurer from October to April. We saw temps down to -20 degrees F. We burned 4 gallons of propane per day as well as having about 2,000 watts of electric space heaters. Every thing functioned all the way through and we stayed about 68 F.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

arto_wa wrote:


Winter camping is more doable and more common in most places out west I suppose.

Camping on The Columbia River in early January:

More doable, for sure.

In the place where I like to camp in the Allegheny Highlands, several feet of snow is commonplace in January. Varies from year-to-year, but I don't want to risk being stranded in a remote area until the spring thaw.

My daughter and son-in-law used to live in Portland. I love the Pacific NW.

Wayne

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

brulaz wrote:
For some reason, you see more of the cold weather options available on the lots out west, both in the US and Canada. A couple of the major manufacturers of 4-season trailers are located in Oregon: Artic Fox and Outdoors RV. Their trailers are available throughout the West (US and Canada) but rare in the East.

Pretty hard to find a trailer in Ontario with 4-season options like double-pane windows. But they are quite common in B.C., at least the Artic Fox and Outdoors RV versions are.

I spent a long time looking for a 4-season travel trailer before deciding on a motorhome instead, and that matches what I found available anywhere nearby – very few available with dual pane windows, enclosed floors, and extra insulation. Arctic Fox and Outdoors models are all but non-existent in the east, but more widely available out west. In the literature for other brands, several of them offer these features as options, but dealers here in the mid-Atlantic don’t seem to order them in units they buy to stock on their lots.

I spend a lot of time camping here in the Allegheny Highlands of WV in March and early April. Temperatures are normally in the 20’s or 30’s overnight and going up to the high-50s to low-80’s during the day. Not unusual to have frost in the morning and be wearing just a t-shirt in the afternoon. My experience doing this for many years in a typical TT made me resolve to never buy another RV without dual pane windows, enclosed floors and tanks, and better insulation. I learned to deal with frozen pipes (they would usually thaw later in the day) but that and condensation pouring from single-pane windows takes a lot of the fun out of it.

I don’t have those problems now with the motorhome. 🙂

Wayne

[arto_wa]

brulaz wrote:
For some reason, you see more of the cold weather options available on the lots out west, both in the US and Canada. A couple of the major manufacturers of 4-season trailers are located in Oregon: Artic Fox and Outdoors RV. Their trailers are available throughout the West (US and Canada) but rare in the East.

Pretty hard to find a trailer in Ontario with 4-season options like double-pane windows. But they are quite common in B.C., at least the Artic Fox and Outdoors RV versions are.

Winter camping is more doable and more common in most places out west I suppose.

Camping on The Columbia River in early January:

[brulaz]

Heh, we go to Florida. But even there, I appreciate the increased insulation of a 4-Season trailer with double-pane windows.

It's not so much the camping in winter I dislike, it's the driving/towing. And I'm sure the salt on Ontario roads in winter would not be good for the trailer (or truck).

[SoundGuy]

brulaz wrote:
Pretty hard to find a trailer in Ontario with 4-season options like double-pane windows. But they are quite common in B.C., at least the Artic Fox and Outdoors RV versions are.

Yet winter camping @ -20C here in Ontario is hosted by several campgrounds that are open year round. Having tried winter camping myself it's not for me but many others do take pleasure in it as evidenced by the fact these winter programs continue to be quite popular.

Winter Camping at MacGregor Point Provincial Park in Ontario

[brulaz]

For some reason, you see more of the cold weather options available on the lots out west, both in the US and Canada. A couple of the major manufacturers of 4-season trailers are located in Oregon: Artic Fox and Outdoors RV. Their trailers are available throughout the West (US and Canada) but rare in the East.

Pretty hard to find a trailer in Ontario with 4-season options like double-pane windows. But they are quite common in B.C., at least the Artic Fox and Outdoors RV versions are.

[SoundGuy]

Empty Nest, Soon wrote:
A number of such cold weather options are available from many manufacturers, but so far as I know very few dealers ever order them because so few of us here in the US camp in extreme weather.

I would be shocked if these available options were not more common in Canada, particularly among folks who camp in Canadian winter.

Well be prepared to be shocked. 😉

A lesson in geography ...

The population of Canada is approximately 36 million, about 10% of the US population, and of that ~ 1/3rd or about 12 million live in S Ontario, defined as that area south of Algonquin Park to the southernmost island in Lake Erie. Surprising as it may seem FAR more Americans live in the northern US states bordering the 49th parallel and therefore are further north than 1/3rd of the Canadian population so in reality having to deal with cold, winter weather is far more of an issue for far more Americans than for many Canadians. The idea that recreational vehicles built for the Canadian market are modified in some way to better sustain use in extreme cold weather is a myth ... they're the same as their US counterparts. Take my own Coachmen Freedom Express for example, built exactly the same as those sold in the US other than minor adjustments for Canadian codes. In the Freedom Express lineup there is also a dressed up version called the Maple Leaf Edition sold here in Canada which is exactly the same as the Liberty Edition sold in the US, again with only minor code variations between the two. Additional features to these two dressed up versions are just that - window dressing - and don't include anything that would improve performance in cold weather. These are all considered to be 3-season campers, suitable for use from early spring to late fall but not including what we here in Canada or those in the northern US states define as winter.

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

SoundGuy wrote:

Empty Nest, Soon wrote:
I suspect that RV’s sold in Canada, especially those purchased by folks who plan to camp during the Canadian winter, tend to be a little better insulated than the vast majority of those sold in the US.

Sorry to disappoint but they're exactly the same, the only differences being minor code variations for electrical, gas, etc. We buy the same "3-season" camper you do, insulated exactly the same way.

Speaking from my own experience in a US-made 3-season travel trailer with an exposed belly: I have camped for long periods in late winter/early spring and in fall in the mountains here in WV while trout fishing, for periods ranging from 2 to 4 weeks at a time. I know from experience that my exposed water line from my exposed water tank would freeze if the overnight temperature got below about 20*F. Others in the campground had the same issues. I cannot imagine camping in that 3-season TT at -25*C (-13*F), as you suggest, without adding a lot of options for making it more suitable for extreme weather.

A number of such cold weather options are available from many manufacturers, but so far as I know very few dealers ever order them because so few of us here in the US camp in extreme weather.

I would be shocked if these available options were not more common in Canada, particularly among folks who camp in Canadian winter.

Wayne

[Empty_Nest__Soo]

philh wrote:
. . .
We're making a trip in early winter. Trailer will be winterized, before we leave, question which I have to answer before we leave, will it be warm enough to carry water in the tank, or wait until we get to our destination. . .

Tanks will take a long time to freeze, even if exposed, simply because of the mass of the water. If the outlet pipe from an exposed tank is also exposed, it will freeze easily if it has water in it. Pex plumbing will not crack open if water in it freezes, but the fittings may.

If you’re looking to camp one night on the road with heat but little other electricity usage, you should be fine for one night. Especially if you turn the heat well down and use warm covers instead. Once you are on the road the next day, presumably, the battery should recharge.

Wayne

[westend]

There's really only so much you can do with insulation using the dimensions of a trailer or truck camper. One thing that almost no mfg does is to install a thermal break between framing members and inside surfaces. Those aluminum frames conduct heat and cold rapidly at Canadian temps.

The OP could become a lot more prepared by carrying another battery. If cold weather camping was going to be an ongoing thing, he might want to look into solar and larger battery banks so any worries are removed.