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Just witnessed MPPT voltage drop below 14V

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
Well this is interesting. Half sunny half cloudy day, 92 degrees out. Collected this data looking at the turnigy for the maximum panel output (not max amps to battery which was fun but not any real objective yet) for each line:



When it is sunny out, my Unisolar 68 watt strip stays between the theoretical Vmppt of 16.5v and a few tenths below that most of the time (16.35v or so average I think).

When moderate clouds come out, I saw it drop a hair below 14 volts multiple times (I got full data for one of them). That has interesting implications for serial vs parallel solar setups using 12 V panels on cloudy days.

On the flip side, when the battery does not need charging at over 14 volts, that makes PWM around the same efficiency as very good MPPT under those conditions. If the MPPT is not very good, the PWM could actually yield more watts to the battery.

It also means that on days with fast moving clouds moving through bright sunshine, a slow MPPT algorithm is going to be WAY off sometimes, such as for an optimization interval where it set Vmppt for sun and then there are clouds for most of the next interval. Output essentially falls of to near 0 because the IV solar output curve shifts radically left.

Fun stuff!

Jim

P.S. DSchmidt_2000 you were right on with the idea of using a constant voltage load. Once I created a good approximation of it, it was MUCH easier to adjust the pot to find the max power point.
19 REPLIES 19

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
I would do the same once I had enough to retire, just phase back some.

Jim

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi Jim,

I've never worked more than about 40% of full time, since 1984. It was enough to meet my needs. I love my work--so I see no need to stop, though I am finally starting to get "selective" about which clients I rebook.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

mena661
Explorer
Explorer
I'm still a little ways off from 50 and it's possible I could retire at that age but I like working so I don't see that happening. At best, I would just find something different to do (ie still work).

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
I am in awe of you who planed well enough to retire at 50. As I approach that age, I have 3 kids in college. We saved well but college costs considerably more than we saved.

I wish I still had those blank punch cards. There is a company in Conroe Texas who still runs *production* scheduling on an early punched card machine where you hard wire the instructions. With wire jumpers. Apparently blank cards a getting a little hard to find these days...

Won't sell it to the computer museum

Jim

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi Jim,

Your results are why I chose series/parallel for my install. I think it is one reason I do get some charging in the rain. Today it will rain all day--and I have no reason to drive, so I'll survive on the battery bank's reserves. I'll only get enough to cover the parasitic drains today I fear.

I agree--a poor mppt controller can, in some circumstances do less well than pwm for nominal 12 volt panels. (17 volts).
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Salvo
Explorer
Explorer
FORTRAN, IBM punch card, been there done that. Retired at 50 to spend more time to mountain bike the best trails out West.

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
The bimodal operation is very handy.

Jim

DSchmidt_2000
Explorer
Explorer
Was looking around the web and
FOUND THIS article on an electronic load.

This circuit is useful for characterizing photovoltaic modules, which have two source modes.. . . . . At voltages below VMPP, the photovoltaic modules look like a current source. It is normally difficult to characterize this flat region of the curve with a simple current-mode electronic load, because the voltage output is sensitive to small variations in current, and thus a constant-voltage mode load is a better choice.

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
I was the last engineering class to do punched cards at my college as a freshman in 1982.

So SGI maybe?

Man it would be a miracle for me to retire at 50 LOL.

I have done a lot more chief architect/chief engineer stuff than software engineering for a quite some time now. Code was a lot of fun.

Jim

KJINTF
Explorer
Explorer
Jim

I did programming back in the day with a punch card reader - Damn I must be an old fart. Moved on to embedded systems along with hardware design for extreme dollar video processing equipment, Invested my $$ properly and retired early at 50 young years old, which was a long time ago.

HiTech
Explorer
Explorer
KJINTF wrote:
Some do this stuff while at home dreaming of camping - it could be the folks that still have full time jobs or have to work for a living rather than camping. For some of us the Retirement life style is wonderful

Jim

Take a very close look see at the Morningstar MODBUS interface protocol document, it contains what you are asking for. A wonderful document geared toward software programmers. Suggest you bite the bullet and purchase the programmable hardware to play with. Additionally move over to NAWAS forum where the extreme nose bleed solar folks hang out


I have done real time machine control with PCs before soft PLCs came out but it's been a long time. If anyone ever had a Ford Ranger, I coded the software that made that fuel line. Helped code some prototype OBD systems. Reverse engineered the original EECS IV ECU config tables and some of the code that ran the '96 SHO when it came out too (it was legal back then - no "do not reverse engineer" notices back in the day). That was fun because they had a custom chip from intel with instructions that no documentation was available for at the time (8052 variant maybe?).

I quit doing any serious coding around the time I learned SmallTalk when it first came out. But I can still run a code review with the best of them, in a pinch.

Never did modbus - dabbled more with the Rockwell stuff. What kind of development environment do you use?

I'm worried if I go over to the dark side I'll never come back. ๐Ÿ™‚ Maybe it's the light side since it is all solar guys? PV's have been around 50+ years (a lot longer as a curiosity) but it is still early days for the technology with lots of innovations coming quickly.

Jim

KJINTF
Explorer
Explorer
Some do this stuff while at home dreaming of camping - it could be the folks that still have full time jobs or have to work for a living rather than camping. For some of us the Retirement life style is wonderful

Jim

Take a very close look see at the Morningstar MODBUS interface protocol document, it contains what you are asking for. A wonderful document geared toward software programmers. Suggest you bite the bullet and purchase the programmable hardware to play with. Additionally move over to NAWAS forum where the extreme nose bleed solar folks hang out

mena661
Explorer
Explorer
jolooote wrote:
Gee... THIS is what some do instead of campin? lol
Nope! ๐Ÿ™‚ This is done before AND after camping!

jolooote
Explorer
Explorer
Gee... THIS is what some do instead of campin? lol
Joe & Charlotte

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