lead calcium agm non starved acid battery

[pianotuna]

Hi all,

I have:

Dynasty UPS12-490MR

The chemistry is Lead Calcium AGM with a SG of 1.300

Amp-hour capacity 139.2 when new.

They are a non starved acid AGM.

I have four in two balanced banks

Mex says:

Adding 2% calcium to the negative plates changes the profile on a battery like this and I mean utterly.

My question is "how does it change"?

[pianotuna]

Hi Niner,

Hmmmm that sounds just like a typical RV'er LOL!

I could not agree more about Mex.

NinerBikes wrote:
if you are abusive, neglectful, or ignorant in it's preferred characteristics, along with do's and don'ts.

[NinerBikes]

Ha! If my new Teleco DEKA 145 ET (and it does indeed require having an Extra Testicle to lift this 105 lb mofo) prevents me from burning holes in 3 pair of Levi 550 blue jeans near the end of it's life, from lack of dipping the hydromenter, it will have more than paid for itself double in savings!

As I am learning, Acid Rich Teleco batteries, charged voltages, construction, materials ( mine has tin in the lead plates too), and charging amperage rates are all over the place, compared to acid starved construction AGM's.

We wouldn't know and learn all we have without MexicoWanderer's insight to battery manufacturing and construction techniques, for that we should be thankful... Suck up his knowledge while he's still around to share it, folks.

Taking a surplus none conventional Teleco / UPS battery and employing it in an RV solution, for the savings, is or could be a cr*pshoot, if you are abusive, neglectful, or ignorant in it's preferred characteristics, along with do's and don'ts. Me, I don't like to gamble, ever, I like a sure thing.

[pianotuna]

Give that last tidbit, I'll keep my daily draw at no more than 50% or 3 kwh. That should give me a nice cushion.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yes. Battery OEM would rather the public not lay hands on a non starved AGM because they brag their regular batteries can be utterly discharged without destroying them. Roughly speaking a surplus acid AGM and a standard 5% antimony battery are equally vulnerable. Ten total discharges and the battery is finished.

[pianotuna]

Once the acid is 'used up' positive plate erosion or shaling stops. So by being acid starved the cycle life of the battery bank is some what protected. This happens at the expense of total available capacity, in the short term.

The other side of the starved acid is that any equalization (called a conditioning charge) had better be done by approaching the gassing voltage but not ever exceeding it. In the non starved that is a tiny bit less of a concern.

brulaz wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

...
Those batteries are engineered for prolonged life in standby mode with safeties built into battery maintenance mechanisms not in the inherent design of the battery itself. Total prolonged discharge will damage this type of battery a lot more than an acid starved type.
...

Not to highjack the thread, but would "regular" commercial AGMs like Lifeline, East Penn, Rolls be the acid-starved type?

[brulaz]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

...
Those batteries are engineered for prolonged life in standby mode with safeties built into battery maintenance mechanisms not in the inherent design of the battery itself. Total prolonged discharge will damage this type of battery a lot more than an acid starved type.
...

Not to highjack the thread, but would "regular" commercial AGMs like Lifeline, East Penn, Rolls be the acid-starved type?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Start backing the voltage down from 13.6 while observing amperage. See what you see.

[pianotuna]

Thanks Mex,

That gives me a place to start. As always you are cogent and encouraging.

I'm finding that 3 amps appears to be the magic 0.5%. That is easily accomplished by the solar system. I'm not 'seeing' 13.2 volts @ the 0.5% but rather 13.6.

I have not adjusted the float voltage on the Blue Sky controller yet.

Since I had the new bank installed I've not seen the 'float light' on the Blue Sky. How ever I do see 13.6 with the 'absorb' light displayed which is bang in the middle of the suggested 13.4 to 13.8 float zone.

The bulk voltage from the Blue Sky is 14.6 on the display--but not on the volt meter which shows 14.3 to 14.5.

Given those numbers I'm not sure I will bother to change the float voltage on the Blue Sky.

The RV goes into storage on November 14 and stays there until March 10th, 2016.

I'm loving being able to use the load support feature of the Magnum inverter which the old worn out flooded batteries could no longer power.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Reduces conductivity (increases impedance significantly). Reduces incidental micro gassing which because of recombinant technology is extremely difficult to detect. The entire operational voltage profile is raised as much as one to two tenths of a volt.

By the way ALL absorbed glass mat batteries contain varying amounts of calcium in the negative plates. What I mused is increasing the calcium content, not merely introducing it.

Concorde chose silver to augment calcium in the negative plates. A measurable reduction in impedance therefore increase in conductivity.

Thicker glass mats are far and away the most significant modification to a standby battery. That and extremely thick plates to offset a higher erosion factor due to 1.300 electrolyte.

Those batteries are engineered for prolonged life in standby mode with safeties built into battery maintenance mechanisms not in the inherent design of the battery itself. Total prolonged discharge will damage this type of battery a lot more than an acid starved type.

Your personal experimentation to establish trends and tendencies will reward you 100 times better than asking mere questions. Find out exactly where the .5% point lives. Do an estimated 50% amp hour capacity extraction, mark a voltage baseline then recharge to establish a custom for you only Charge Efficiency Factor. Perform an amp hour accumulation test at 13.2, 13.4 and 13.6 volt float value. Load test the batteries. Max inverter. Test the batteries individually for voltage equality.

Discovery is fun and semi-permanent.