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Lithium cost keep dropping!

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
A FYI only, I haven’t checked into Amazon’s LiFePO4 offerings in quite some time, but just saw this today, 100a/h and 10 year warranty for $338 with $50 coupon applied…I have no experience with this particular brand (I have Aims), so I make no claims as to it’s performance, but the Lithium value quotient is becoming something to consider…

https://www.amazon.com/Enjoybot-100Ah-2000-5000-Lifetime-Off-grid/dp/B09CPWMZBZ/ref=sr_1_42?crid=30WW8IZY0IEBH&dchild=1&keywords=lithium+rv+battery+100ah&qid=1631671328&sprefix=Lithium+Rv%2Caps%2C245&sr=8-42

3 tons
58 REPLIES 58

otrfun
Explorer II
Explorer II
S Davis wrote:
Just finishing up my first 280ah pack, still need to torque all the connections, trim the all thread and add acorn nuts.

Eve 280ah 12volt cell
Nice job on those interconnects! We so wanted to go with 280ah cells for our truck camper. We reluctantly went with 200ah cells so we could fit everything in a group 24 battery box.

S_Davis
Explorer
Explorer
Just finishing up my first 280ah pack, still need to torque all the connections, trim the all thread and add acorn nuts.

Eve 280ah 12volt cell

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
mobeewan wrote:
Will Prouse just gave SOK brand LiFePO marine grade a good review.

Has BMS and half the price of BB 100 Amp and twice the capacity 206 Amp but only has 1/2 the discharge rate.
At same price get two for same load rating and 4x capacity.

mobeewan
Explorer
Explorer
Will Prouse just gave SOK brand LiFePO marine grade a good review.

Has BMS and half the price of BB 100 Amp and twice the capacity 206 Amp but only has 1/2 the discharge rate.

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Very little to no difference between 2 hour rate and 20 hour rate with LFP.
Not even close to the issues with lead-acid peukert decline at high rates of discharge.

Most of the prismatic cells I see recommend C/2 (2hr) as the top normal rate and C/1 (1hr) as the maximum discharge or charge rate. Most recommend 2.500 to 3.650 volts per cell. Most of the energy is contained in 3.000 to 3.400 volts per cell. Premade battery cell manufacturer can choose the limits they want to meet the capacity and warranty requirements. All premade battery limits will be different and proprietary. Need to build your own to know your programmed limitations.

I think some of the cylindrical cells may go to 3C or higher.

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
time2roll wrote:
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?
The rating is the energy that you can actually pull from the battery.

This is the same as people go round and round about propane cylinders and the 80% fill cut-off.

Now having said that, there are sellers in CN selling batteries that do not produce the rated power. Best to buy from a reputable and verified supplier.


Last go-round on all this, it came out that "energy" and "power" wording had to watched like a hawk. eg, when you get down to 50% AH you are more than half way down in energy remaining.

There was some jiggery-pokery about how they get the AH rating. Instead of using a 5a draw for 20 hrs to get 100AH, some said they draw 100a for 1 hr and then do some kind of fudging between watt hr and AH curves to get a range.

Some said 120 vs 100 depended on the type of cell where prismatic cells needed the cushion at the low SOC.

Most said they didn't care about the exact amounts for how they camp and they get what they want from their LFPs using ball park figures--common sense!

Mex will get a bad headache if he wants to "go there" . Lie down till the urge to figure out LFPs goes away!
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?
The rating is the energy that you can actually pull from the battery.

This is the same as people go round and round about propane cylinders and the 80% fill cut-off.

Now having said that, there are sellers in CN selling batteries that do not produce the rated power. Best to buy from a reputable and verified supplier.

jaycocreek
Explorer II
Explorer II
If watch that Chin's $359 video I posted the link to,It shows Will drawing down the 100ah Chins battery to zero and 104 amp hours through his tester..He also did one on the Zoom battery with the very same results..104 amp hours to zero/dead dark 30......LOL
Lance 9.6
400 watts solar mounted/200 watts portable
500ah Lifep04

road-runner
Explorer III
Explorer III
YES: The advertised amp hours do include the no-touchee amp hours. For maximum charge cycles, there are recommendations to not touch the top 10% either, leaving 70% usable. Compared to 50% recommended for lead acid batteries. Lots of discussion about this on solar energy forums.
2009 Fleetwood Icon

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
Life cycle I understand well.

But a lithium battery contains "x" number of amp hours. Let's use the 20 hour rate...

But a certain percentage of those amp hours are "no touchee" because any further drawdown would permanently damage the battery.

The internal BMS prevents unintentional drawdown past the safety minimum.

Now for my ongoing question...

Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?

StirCrazy
Moderator
Moderator
time2roll wrote:
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
What is the USUABLE amp hours of a "100 amp hour" lithium battery?
Or is it hypothetical like solar panel wattage as measured on the planet Mercury?
Sweet spot is up to 80% for 4000 to 6000 cycles.
100% maybe 3000 cycles or almost 10 years for daily cycling.
This rating drops you to 80% capacity. Possibly still very usable.

For many of us it could prove to be the last battery we buy.


depends on the brnd, some advertise 5000 @ 100% dept of discharge and up to 8000 or more if you stay in that 80% so to me its 3-5000 depending on the battery at 100% and if you use less you get bonus rounds. but your tight even if you max out on the 100% thats just the figure to get to 80 to 90% capacity and then you can go a lot linger like that.

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

jaycocreek
Explorer II
Explorer II
The Chins 100ah battery is actually 104ah for $359..

Chins $359 100ah battery tear down..
Lance 9.6
400 watts solar mounted/200 watts portable
500ah Lifep04

Tom_M1
Explorer
Explorer
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
So the 100 amp hour battery is actually 120 ampere hours with the bottom 20 amp hours Forbidden Planet? What is making my eyebrows rise?
This is true for what is considered a "drop-in" battery which has a built-in BMS. Without a BMS the battery would be quickly destroyed.
Tom
2005 Born Free 24RB
170ah Renogy LiFePo4 drop-in battery 400 watts solar
Towing 2016 Mini Cooper convertible on tow dolly
Minneapolis, MN

MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Explorer
So the 100 amp hour battery is actually 120 ampere hours with the bottom 20 amp hours Forbidden Planet? What is making my eyebrows rise?

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Standard shipping from China right now is 90+ days. If it is the regular 75 days promised I would start a dispute at 76 days.

Here is a few legit sellers. Qishou

Docan


Luyuan