Low temperature LI battery

[pianotuna]

Finally an LI battery with a built in heater:

https://relionbattery.com/blog/lithium-battery-cold-weather

[pianotuna]

Hi GordonThree,

They have not. But there must be some of those cells floating around that don't "make the cut". Sorry if I implied they were going into Battleborn or other LI FE

GordonThree wrote:
When did Tesla switch to iron phosphate batteries?

[GordonThree]

When did Tesla switch to iron phosphate batteries?

[3_tons]

pianotuna wrote:
3 tons,

I read some where (didn't bookmark it) that Tesla "fails" about 1/3 of the batteries they produce. I'm guessing those don't get thrown away.....

After some extensive LiFePO4 single 12v 100a trials (value brand) on my neighbor’s camper, I must concede that the results were pretty impressive, even running his 11kbtu air cond for about 1 hr (compressor cycling - 9 LRA starts, rated at 6.8 run amps, 34 min of comp run time...fan = 2.2 amps on low) from 100% down to 13% SOC without even a hitch...No difficulties with BMS...And this was before we installed 400w solar...

Though I’m not quite ready to replace my two 2 yr old Costco GC’s, I’m now kind’a a convert to Li as my next replacement...Though a bit costlier, Trojan appears to have top notch QC for their trillium Li cells...

[JaxDad]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Big deal, Tesla Motors HAS been doing this for years.



Face it, ALL batteries have advantages and disadvantages, if you are into extreme cold weather camping and don't wish to run a gen for an hr or more additional JUST TO HEAT THE BATTERY then LI technology is not for you..

Tesla has been doing what for years?

Neither of my current Tesla’s (X or S) are worth a tinkers **** at temperatures anywhere near those temps ........ unless I leave the climate control turned up.

ONCE, I forgot and left it off. I took 6+ hours for the CC to warm the batteries enough to start taking a charge. Luckily I was at my cottage where I could keep it plugged in.

An hour of even high amperage 220 volt power would be worth about ZERO.....

If one of my daily drivers can be so quickly crippled I can only imagine what it would be like depending on those batteries for camping, let alone as my principle residence.

[Itinerant1]

pianotuna wrote:
Itinerant1,

Thanks for being a guinea pig for the rest of us.

Itinerant1 wrote:
If I feel the need to see what a large lfp battery looks like I'll look at my 500ah 20 prismatic cells that I live off of everyday for the past 41 months in my rv.

I think the guinea pigs for prismatic cells came before me, it has been an awesome way to to enjoy solar/ batteries without the need to have the generator helping with charging everyday or needing to run the high draw items.

Now I think there are guinea pigs out there with drop ins, who knows what's in the magic box. 😉

[pianotuna]

3 tons,

I read some where (didn't bookmark it) that Tesla "fails" about 1/3 of the batteries they produce. I'm guessing those don't get thrown away.....

[pianotuna]

Itinerant1,

Thanks for being a guinea pig for the rest of us.

Itinerant1 wrote:
If I feel the need to see what a large lfp battery looks like I'll look at my 500ah 20 prismatic cells that I live off of everyday for the past 41 months in my rv.

[3_tons]

Theres starting to come to the market a few ‘value branded’ LiFePO4 12v 100amp batteries, one that I’m aware of that has a ten year limited warranty...My guess is that the individual cells are merely generic and bought in bulk from some unknown supplier with unknown quality specs....So, who can really say the true origin or the uniform methods specified for each individual cell, or the final assembly or of the BMS, and how should one expect a little known vendor to still be around in say 10 years time??

In my view, paying a little more money for a major reputable brand name is moola well spent...

[Itinerant1]

pnichols wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:
And yet folks and possibly even posters to this thread plug in laptops, phones, tablets and any other device that has some sort of lithium chemistry that is even more unstable than lfp in their homes, vehicles, rvs and not think twice to walk away while it charges.

Take a look inside this typical large RV lithium battery - notice all the cells with all those interconects between all those cells - and that good sized circuit board at the top that's probably loaded with intergrated circuits, capacitors, resistors, voltage regulators, temperature sensors, etc., etc.. You want to trust all this stuff to never go hay-wire inside an area where you're sleeping, or where you're pet is sleeping while you're gone? Not me:
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/uploads/files/15019/12V%20100AH%20Internal%20Design%20PDF.pdf

(I won't own an electric car quite yet, either, for the same reason. 😉 )

If I feel the need to see what a large lfp battery looks like I'll look at my 500ah 20 prismatic cells that I live off of everyday for the past 41 months in my rv.

I think more about of the ding dongs that comes out to the Forest to camp/ party and starting a fire that will kill me and the dogs than my lfp batteries while I sleep.;)

[GordonThree]

Knowing how RVs are made, I doubt it would make any difference where a lithium cobalt battery catches fire.

For lead acid, keeping them segmented off so not to breathe sulfuric acid vapor makes sense.

Failure mode on an iron phosphate battery is fairly benign. You don't get an impressive fire from them. The electrolyte is not flammable. Also the energy density is too low.

Don't confuse iron phosphate technology with lithium cobalt.

As for discounting small electronics as harmless, plenty of vehicles and even homes have been destroyed by a fire from small lithium cobalt batteries.

[pnichols]

Itinerant1 wrote:
And yet folks and possibly even posters to this thread plug in laptops, phones, tablets and any other device that has some sort of lithium chemistry that is even more unstable than lfp in their homes, vehicles, rvs and not think twice to walk away while it charges.

Uuuuuuhhh ... but aren't those LITTLE TINY, low-cell-count, or single cell lithium batteries ... with little tiny electronic circuits charging them ... with consequently only little tiny fires that might result from failure of those little tiny electronic circuits to not properly treat the lithium chemistry?

Take a look inside this typical large RV lithium battery - notice all the cells with all those interconects between all those cells - and that good sized circuit board at the top that's probably loaded with intergrated circuits, capacitors, resistors, voltage regulators, temperature sensors, etc., etc.. You want to trust all this stuff to never go hay-wire inside an area where you're sleeping, or where you're pet is sleeping while you're gone? Not me:
https://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/uploads/files/15019/12V%20100AH%20Internal%20Design%20PDF.pdf

(I won't own an electric car quite yet, either, for the same reason. 😉 )

[grizzzman]

Itinerant1 wrote:
And yet folks and possibly even posters to this thread plug in laptops, phones, tablets and any other device that has some sort of lithium chemistry that is even more unstable than lfp in their homes, vehicles, rvs and not think twice to walk away while it charges.

Ding Ding Ding......we have a winner!

[RickLight]

I believe the vastly faster charge rate possible with LiFePo more than makes up for some seasonal heating needs.

[Itinerant1]

And yet folks and possibly even posters to this thread plug in laptops, phones, tablets and any other device that has some sort of lithium chemistry that is even more unstable than lfp in their homes, vehicles, rvs and not think twice to walk away while it charges.