Propane Refills

[matthfam]

After reading on this site about what a propane tank should weigh when empty/full, I decided I should weigh mine. I had used one tank only with the other one shut off ... The "full" tank weighed in at 44 lbs. the used one at 35.5 lbs. While it makes sense that I used about 8-9 lbs from the tank I was using, it makes no sense that they weighed 44 lbs when full. I was ripped off.
There could be a small difference to the 55 lbs supposed weight when full, but 11 lbs? They advertise as the cheapest propane in town. Not cheap at all! Take a scale with you when refilling!

[StirCrazy]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

joebedford wrote:
I usually get 20lbs in a 20lb cylinder (by weight). Not 20lbs less 20%.

are you filling an old tank with the old-style valve? If not, there is no way to get that much in it unless the place filling it is breaking the law. in a 20lbs cylinder, which are the same size they have always been, with the new valves and regulations they can only hold 16lbs or 3.89 gal. if a place is telling you they put 20lbs in or charges you for that, they are ripping you off or breaking the law filling the cylinders.

I'm a certified LP refiller and trainer. I've been filling LP tanks of various sizes for over 40 years.

My 20 LP cylinders when filled by opening the "spitter" (Fixed Liquid Level Gauge) until liquid flows weigh out at 20 lbs plus TW. My 30 lb cylinders at 30 lbs plus TW, and my 40 lb cylinder at 40 lbs plus TW. The 16 lbs you claim is incorrect. The LP capacity is 80% of the total water capacity of the cylinder, not 80% of the rated LP weight. A 20 lb rated cylinder holds 4.6 gallons of LP. A 30 lb rated cylinder holds 7 gallons of LP, and a 40 lb cylinder holds 9.4 gallons of LP. Actual total weights are a function of the LP weight plus the cylinder Tare Weight and minor variations due to ambient temperature differences.

There are some differences that density brings in. so,, while you can only fill to 80% of the capacity, due to the density, it in reality it is somewhere in between depending on the temperature. I was keeping it simple. so volume wise you can fill it to about 3.89 gal which is 16lbs but temprature if it is cold could make it weight more as the density is increased so you get a bit more propane in the same volume. it's the same as gas for your car, all volumes are calibrated at a specific temp. I remember the days we used to be able to fill to 100% and the tanks used to run the BBQ quite a bit linger haha.

[Dutch_12078]

StirCrazy wrote:

joebedford wrote:
I usually get 20lbs in a 20lb cylinder (by weight). Not 20lbs less 20%.

are you filling an old tank with the old-style valve? If not, there is no way to get that much in it unless the place filling it is breaking the law. in a 20lbs cylinder, which are the same size they have always been, with the new valves and regulations they can only hold 16lbs or 3.89 gal. if a place is telling you they put 20lbs in or charges you for that, they are ripping you off or breaking the law filling the cylinders.

I'm a certified LP refiller and trainer. I've been filling LP tanks of various sizes for over 40 years.

My 20 LP cylinders when filled by opening the "spitter" (Fixed Liquid Level Gauge) until liquid flows weigh out at 20 lbs plus TW. My 30 lb cylinders at 30 lbs plus TW, and my 40 lb cylinder at 40 lbs plus TW. The 16 lbs you claim is incorrect. The LP capacity is 80% of the total water capacity of the cylinder, not 80% of the rated LP weight. A 20 lb rated cylinder holds 4.6 gallons of LP. A 30 lb rated cylinder holds 7 gallons of LP, and a 40 lb cylinder holds 9.4 gallons of LP. Actual total weights are a function of the LP weight plus the cylinder Tare Weight and minor variations due to ambient temperature differences.

[ktmrfs]

CA Traveler wrote:
The Costco 20lb tanks are $50 in the Phoenix area, empty of course.

I paid $29 last spring for 5 gallon tanks with a level gauge at Costco.

Here costco usually only has them in the spring.

Empty, but to recert the tank must also be empty.

[CA_Traveler]

The Costco 20lb tanks are $50 in the Phoenix area, empty of course.

[ktmrfs]

StirCrazy wrote:

CA Traveler wrote:
LMHS Why are your tanks weighed? When "your" tanks are out of date do you have them recertified? And are you concerned about the foot ring becoming loose? Just curious.

It costs more to recertify up here than to buy a new one at Costco filled. It's 70 bucks just to retest and certify a 5 to 40lbs vertical tank here, where for 40-50 bucks normally, I can get a new 30lbs from Costco filled.

My experience as well on 20lb tanks. And the Costco ones I get have a float based level gauge that is pretty accurate.

[StirCrazy]

CA Traveler wrote:
LMHS Why are your tanks weighed? When "your" tanks are out of date do you have them recertified? And are you concerned about the foot ring becoming loose? Just curious.

It costs more to recertify up here than to buy a new one at Costco filled. It's 70 bucks just to retest and certify a 5 to 40lbs vertical tank here, where for 40-50 bucks normally, I can get a new 30lbs from Costco filled.

[StirCrazy]

joebedford wrote:
I usually get 20lbs in a 20lb cylinder (by weight). Not 20lbs less 20%.

are you filling an old tank with the old-style valve? If not, there is no way to get that much in it unless the place filling it is breaking the law. in a 20lbs cylinder, which are the same size they have always been, with the new valves and regulations they can only hold 16lbs or 3.89 gal. if a place is telling you they put 20lbs in or charges you for that, they are ripping you off or breaking the law filling the cylinders.

[ktmrfs]

CA Traveler wrote:
LMHS Why are your tanks weighed? When "your" tanks are out of date do you have them recertified? And are you concerned about the foot ring becoming loose? Just curious.

around here I can buy a 5 gallon tank with a real float gauge at costco (usually in the spring) for less than the cost to recertify a 5 gallon tank.

7.5 gallon tanks, or 1 gallon tanks, another story recert is way less expensive than a new tank.

My opinion is that the 5 gallon tanks are a "loss leader" at stores.

[CA_Traveler]

LMHS Why are your tanks weighed? When "your" tanks are out of date do you have them recertified? And are you concerned about the foot ring becoming loose? Just curious.

[LMHS]

I pay by the gallon. I rarely have a completely empty tank to fill. The company that fills my 20# tanks will weigh them and fill them by the metered gallon. More than once I have had 3 tanks filled and they have all been on the same ticket (NM law prohibit transporting more than 3 LP tanks in a passenger vehicle at one time).

My choice of where to fill is dictated by the fact that I know the steps taken to correctly fill a tank. I've walked away from a fill station, with my empty tank, when a step is skipped.

I carry two 20# tank on the truck camper that I refill. One is "mine" (painted light turquoise) and the other is painted white. The white one is my "swap" tank. I always carry a tank dedicated for swapping. As that tank nears it's exp date, I replace it. I do not replace my other tanks. I take very good care of my tanks. They are rust free, dent free and clean. I repaint them every few years as they get skint up from use. When I refill, the tanks are inspected, particularly the foot ring, before refilling.

The people who fill my little tanks work for and are trained by the same company who fills my big horizontal tank.

You have to be careful when swapping tanks. More than once I have gotten an out of date/recertified tank. My last 4 tanks, I ended up buying new. It was just easier to do it that way. It has gotten hard to get a newish tank from the swaps in my area. I have rejected several "swaps" due to condition too.

[markchengr]

It seems that we are discussing both volume (5 GAL of space in a standard DOT tank) and weight (approx. 20 LBS LPG in a standard DOT tank). You should get about 20 lbs in a tank which makes the tank 80% full or about 4 gallons. The mix of propane/butane can vary which slightly affects the weight of a given volume of the liquified gas.

[ktmrfs]

For the OP original concern, if he paid by gallons and got the gallons charged all is ok. if he paid by weight (never seen that but possible) and got the weight he paid for all is ok.

If he paid by gallons and then weighs the cylinder, depending on the mix of propane and butane, trying to figure out if it was correct is not real possible unless he knows the exact propane/butane mix, cylinder weight beforefill etc.

In virtually all places I've filled tanks, your buying LPG, if you read the fine print. That covers a variety of liquid petroleum gas mixes, usually mostly propane, but can also contain some % butane and other gases. The weight will vary depending on the mix. (as well as energy content, and suitability for low temp use)


"Liquefied petroleum gas (LPG or LP gas) is a fuel gas which contains a flammable mixture of hydrocarbon gases, specifically propane, propylene, butylene, isobutane, and n-butane.
In the northern hemisphere winter, the mixes contain more propane, while in summer, they contain more butane"


Most, if not all states have very tight regulations and annual or more often checks on gas/diesel/propane pumps. If they are off, store is in BIG trouble.

Personally, while on a very few occasions they did the fill stopping at a certain weight, I was still charged by gallons on the pump.

[time2roll]

Yes 80% full is the 100% rated capacity. There is no 80% of 80% then fill to 80% of that.

[joebedford]

I usually get 20lbs in a 20lb cylinder (by weight). Not 20lbs less 20%.