PV solar system charging voltage low

[FloridaFlyer86]

Ok solar gurus - I am experiencing low voltage with my PV solar system. The charging voltage will not go above 12.8V. I'm using a Morningstar SS-6L-12V SunSaver controller (2nd gen) with 4 new Crown 6V 220 AH batteries wired series/parallel for a 440 AH 12V system, and a single 95 watt PV panel (astroenergy). The measured open circuit voltage from the panel is 20.3V. The SS-6L-12V should be charging at 14.4 volts for flooded batteries. The green charging light is on. I’m using a TriMetric TM-2025-RV battery monitor and I do get positive current flow (5A) but I’m going to end up stratifying my batteries if I don’t get the voltage up. I also have measured the voltage at the terminals of the controller and also see 12.8V there. (at rest battery voltage is 12.5V.) This is a new system (so all connections are new and clean, with dielectric grease and proper torque) but the components have been used before… over a year ago so my memory is hazy but I’m pretty sure I saw 14.4V before. I’m not too concerned about any wiring being undersized, I went overkill to avoid that possibility.
So I have an email in to Morningstar but I have no idea how long they might take to respond… and I might just have something stupid going on, unrelated to the controller. Any help is appreciated, hopefully I haven’t left anything out.

[full_mosey]

FloridaFlyer86 wrote:

I do not, for now I think I can do without the 3 stage operation since I want to only do bulk and absorption with the DLS-45 and finish the absorption and float with the PV and SS controller.

Good plan.

If you plug the DLS into one of these P3 Kill A Watt Electricity Load Meter and Monitor you will be able to see the Watt draw from the genny. To save fuel, I usually shut down my genny when the charger is using under 200W.

You want to bulk charge early in the AM to allow the solar most of the day to finish charging.

HTH;
John

[time2roll]

95 watts is a bit light. 5a might be right and will take some time.
Need to disconnect all loads and give it a couple weeks. Sitting at 12.5 might need some reconditioning so it may take longer.

[MrWizard]

I have over 900 AH of battery bank
505 watts of solar panels
And I run my generator almost every morning to replace a hunk of the overnight use
Then the solar can provide the daytime use , while doing the topping off of the bank

Generally I am not an early riser, so I am not disturbing anyone at 6am, with the generator or engine, Not until 8~9am

[FloridaFlyer86]

JiminDenver wrote:
The OP hasn't mentioned just how far down his batteries were discharged.

I put how far to the best of my knowledge, 75% amp hour wise although I know they were not fully charged, and resting voltage of 12.5. I think the 75% may actually be closer to 65% since the Trimetric only knows how to count up or down from charged.

mena661 wrote:
Do you have the IQ4 module with your Iota? You need that for 3 stage charging.

I do not, for now I think I can do without the 3 stage operation since I want to only do bulk and absorption with the DLS-45 and finish the absorption and float with the PV and SS controller.

[JiminDenver]

The OP hasn't mentioned just how far down his batteries were discharged.

Amps out have to be replaced. I took a 250 ah bank down to 12.1v resting and put a 220w system on it for the 5 hours the sun was out that day. After 5 hours the voltage of the battery had only made it up to 13v while charging even though the system was putting out 12a. I had removed around 120 ah and even without losses the system had only replaced 60 at best. It would need at least 15 hours of direct sunlight if not more to be in float.

On the other hand, I've had my 95 ah grp 27 down to 12.1v and put my 230w system on it pumping out 15a and in 3 hours it was back in float. The system had no problems replacing the 45 ah needed.

So if you have a 440 ah bank down 220 ah and want to get the voltage up fast, you will need to be putting 45-60 a back in and that's a big system. 3 or 4 of my 230w panel for 690-920w would do it.

[mena661]

Do you have the IQ4 module with your Iota? You need that for 3 stage charging.

[FloridaFlyer86]

So the DLS-45 is hooked up (45 amp, somebody was wondering the output) and the Trimetric monitor is currently showing almost 110% charge level compared to the OEM converter/charger. However the voltage is only 13.9/14.0 and at the charger terminals is 14.2 so I’m thinking the wire gage is insufficient. I’m using 8 AWG and it’s 7 feet from the charger to the batteries, but I didn’t notice the wire chart I was looking at assumed 5% loss to resistance which would be a 0.7 volt drop. Looks like I’ll try 4 AWG and see if I can get full voltage to the batteries… this trial and error thing can be time consuming 😛

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The minimum for a 440 amp-hour bank is about 264 watts of solar. 95 watts might do for unused storage of the RV.

[NinerBikes]

FloridaFlyer86 wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:
Rough rule of thumb, for every AH you have at 12V, you need at least 1 to 1.5 watts of solar panel to charge it. Since you have 440AH in storage capacity in your batteries, you'll need about 440 to 660 watts of solar panel to get the job done.

That's about what I want to have, and hopefully will make it happen soon. Should have mentioned the PV panel is not the only charging source, I have been using my Honda 2000 gen with the stock converter but of course the crappy converter is only giving me 13.5 volts so is also not doing a good job of charging either. I have an Iota DLS-45 charger arriving UPS this afternoon, should have ordered it before getting the new batteries but I wasn’t sure if it would meet my needs or if I would need a fancier Xantrex or other charger. After research it looks like the DLS-45 feature of having a jumper wire to force 14.2 volts should be fine for morning and evening charges with a generator.

full_mosey wrote:


I have experience with the SS gen 2 controllers.

Yours is working fine. It is a two stage charger(no 3rd float stage). During Stage-1,bulk, it charges at the panel ISC depending on the panel tilt. The Volts then increase to 14.4 where stage-2, PWM, kicks in and current is tapered down. Your solar panel is not supplying enough daily Amps to raise your battery bank to 14.4V and is not reaching stage-2.
The 12.5 resting Volts is too low and proves that the bank is not being recharged daily. This is an undercharge situation that will result in sulphation and ruin the bank.
Consult the mfgrs manual.
HTH;
John

That makes sense, I see now that I didn’t understand the SS operation… so I haven’t even been getting into PWM mode. That would explain why I did see 14.4V with the older, smaller battery bank. Hopefully after installing the DLS-45 and spending some time charging at 14.2V I can use the PV system as I intended, to top off charge after bulk charging with the gen. I’ve only had the batteries a little over a week and been careful not to discharge them too low, according to the TM-2025 I haven’t gone below 75% and that was only a couple times. So hopefully I haven’t done irreparable damage!

The jumper wire forces the Iota to output 14.8V,until the battery sees 14.6, or the Iota senses that the battery is charged enough to take up to 14.6V.

Make sure you install that jumper wire on your Iota and leave it in place, and it will do a good job on getting your batteries closer to being topped off.

You didn't mention which amp model Iota you bought.

[FloridaFlyer86]

NinerBikes wrote:
Rough rule of thumb, for every AH you have at 12V, you need at least 1 to 1.5 watts of solar panel to charge it. Since you have 440AH in storage capacity in your batteries, you'll need about 440 to 660 watts of solar panel to get the job done.

That's about what I want to have, and hopefully will make it happen soon. Should have mentioned the PV panel is not the only charging source, I have been using my Honda 2000 gen with the stock converter but of course the crappy converter is only giving me 13.5 volts so is also not doing a good job of charging either. I have an Iota DLS-45 charger arriving UPS this afternoon, should have ordered it before getting the new batteries but I wasn’t sure if it would meet my needs or if I would need a fancier Xantrex or other charger. After research it looks like the DLS-45 feature of having a jumper wire to force 14.2 volts should be fine for morning and evening charges with a generator.

full_mosey wrote:


I have experience with the SS gen 2 controllers.

Yours is working fine. It is a two stage charger(no 3rd float stage). During Stage-1,bulk, it charges at the panel ISC depending on the panel tilt. The Volts then increase to 14.4 where stage-2, PWM, kicks in and current is tapered down. Your solar panel is not supplying enough daily Amps to raise your battery bank to 14.4V and is not reaching stage-2.
The 12.5 resting Volts is too low and proves that the bank is not being recharged daily. This is an undercharge situation that will result in sulphation and ruin the bank.
Consult the mfgrs manual.
HTH;
John

That makes sense, I see now that I didn’t understand the SS operation… so I haven’t even been getting into PWM mode. That would explain why I did see 14.4V with the older, smaller battery bank. Hopefully after installing the DLS-45 and spending some time charging at 14.2V I can use the PV system as I intended, to top off charge after bulk charging with the gen. I’ve only had the batteries a little over a week and been careful not to discharge them too low, according to the TM-2025 I haven’t gone below 75% and that was only a couple times. So hopefully I haven’t done irreparable damage!

[MrWizard]

Measure the input voltage at the controller with a digital multimeter
If voltage is correct, measure resting voltage of batteries after sundown
Now connect to shore power or generator and charge for six hours
Now measure voltage during day time solar charging
I suspect you are trying to run on solar only, with only one 95w panel
While this is enough to help with a weekend, and maybe recovery while in storage
It is Not enough for extended camping without aux 120v for charging

[full_mosey]

FloridaFlyer86 wrote:
Ok solar gurus - I am experiencing low voltage with my PV solar system. The charging voltage will not go above 12.8V. I'm using a Morningstar SS-6L-12V SunSaver controller (2nd gen) with 4 new Crown 6V 220 AH batteries wired series/parallel for a 440 AH 12V system, and a single 95 watt PV panel (astroenergy). The measured open circuit voltage from the panel is 20.3V. The SS-6L-12V should be charging at 14.4 volts for flooded batteries. The green charging light is on. I’m using a TriMetric TM-2025-RV battery monitor and I do get positive current flow (5A) but I’m going to end up stratifying my batteries if I don’t get the voltage up. I also have measured the voltage at the terminals of the controller and also see 12.8V there. (at rest battery voltage is 12.5V.) This is a new system (so all connections are new and clean, with dielectric grease and proper torque) but the components have been used before… over a year ago so my memory is hazy but I’m pretty sure I saw 14.4V before. I’m not too concerned about any wiring being undersized, I went overkill to avoid that possibility.
So I have an email in to Morningstar but I have no idea how long they might take to respond… and I might just have something stupid going on, unrelated to the controller. Any help is appreciated, hopefully I haven’t left anything out.

I have experience with the SS gen 2 controllers.

Yours is working fine. It is a two stage charger(no 3rd float stage). During Stage-1,bulk, it charges at the panel ISC depending on the panel tilt. The Volts then increase to 14.4 where stage-2, PWM, kicks in and current is tapered down. Your solar panel is not supplying enough daily Amps to raise your battery bank to 14.4V and is not reaching stage-2.

The 12.5 resting Volts is too low and proves that the bank is not being recharged daily. This is an undercharge situation that will result in sulphation and ruin the bank.

Consult the mfgrs manual.

HTH;
John

[red31]

lasttruck wrote:
Not one answer about the voltage.

In each answer it is implied, a panel matches the battery voltage and as the current raises the battery voltage the panel output voltage rises.

It would take days at 1% charge to get to 14v if it ever did.

[lasttruck]

Not one answer about the voltage.

Triple checking the connections would be my first step. Finding a way to test the controller would be the next. Any settings on the controller that were accidentally changed?

Good point about battery drain mentioned above. Gas detector, radio memory, satellite or dvd player, etc.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.