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SOLAR

Colo_Native
Explorer
Explorer
I am going to put solar on and I was looking to get this http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-12V-Monocrystalline-Premium-Kit-p/kit-premium200d.htm with a 40A MPPT controller or the 300W setup up to 400W. I will add a 1500w inverter at a later date. What are the pros and cons of Renogy, they cost less but are close to same specs as most other 100W panels I have seen. I don't have a gold mine of money so I have to do this on a budget.

I only need to run the microwave and a toaster off the inverter, I am hoping to not ever have to by a generator. I only need the inverter on the road between stops.
2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
pushed by a 2011 Fusion Hybrid or 2020 Escape Hybrid
Retired DFD
31 REPLIES 31

Canadian_Rainbi
Explorer
Explorer
We have 420 Watts of solar panels and 480 AH of battery--4 GCs and a 2000 Watt PSW inverter. Our microwave draws 160 amps from the batteries when running through the inverter. We ONLY use it at most 2 minutes at a time and let the batteries recover a little. I would not use an electric toaster--cheap stovetop ones do a great job.

Many have told you that 2 group 27 batteries are inadequate an I agree. We used to have 4 group 24s and they were marginal. If there is room for 2 GSs it would work, but watch battery voltage as the microwave runs. 3 group 31 true deep cycle might be your best option if you have room.

As far as balanced wiring of 3 12 v batteries is concerned, positive at one end and negative at the other is pretty close and when you do you battery maintenance you could swap them around every three to six months. Balanced wiring is only of concern if high current present either in use or charging.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
To wire 3*12 requires 4 short interconnect cables. If you connect both load and the charger at opposite Pos/Neg, it will be a "proper" charging, i.e. balanced. (Well, almost balanced). 100A current of MW will split into more manageable 33A per battery.

AGM can support higher current than flooded before the voltage under high load drops too much. And - yes, they can be charged a little faster than flooded, even "normal" AGM like Deka. Lifeline AGM can be charged MUCH faster but with mere 500W solar this is not important, IMO.

JiminDenver
Explorer II
Explorer II
And here I have three rather large 8-D's wired like that.
2011 GulfStream Amerilite 25BH
2003 Ford Expedition with 435w tilting portable/ TS-MPPT-45
750w solar , TS-MPPT-60 on the trailer
675 Ah bank, Trip-lite 1250fc inverter
Sportsman 2200w inverter generator

westend
Explorer
Explorer
scrubjaysnest wrote:
Almot wrote:
scrubjaysnest wrote:

4 GC-2's or a 450Ah battery bank ...

3*100AH AGM might work too, if there is no room for 4*GC.

Wiring 3 12 volt batteries to properly charge is going to be ugly. With the cost of AGM's this will be a key point.
I really don't think it's that big of a deal to charge three. The resistance of AGM's are low and charge acceptance is high. I have three smaller AGM's paralleled in one bank. The (-) charge wire is on one battery and the (+) wire is on another, last in line. I haven't measured exactly the health of all three but they seem to be hanging in there well.

Is there something I'm missing?
'03 F-250 4x4 CC
'71 Starcraft Wanderstar -- The Cowboy/Hilton

scrubjaysnest
Explorer
Explorer
Almot wrote:
scrubjaysnest wrote:

4 GC-2's or a 450Ah battery bank ...

3*100AH AGM might work too, if there is no room for 4*GC.

Wiring 3 12 volt batteries to properly charge is going to be ugly. With the cost of AGM's this will be a key point.
Axis 24.1 class A 500watts solar TS-45CC Trimetric
Very noisy generator :M
2016 Wrangler JK dinghy
โ€œThey who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.โ€ Benjamin Franklin

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
scrubjaysnest wrote:

4 GC-2's or a 450Ah battery bank ...

3*100AH AGM might work too, if there is no room for 4*GC.

scrubjaysnest
Explorer
Explorer
I guess I should have said the MW is 900W so a little less toaster 1200w. really don't want to run anything else just warm up food or toast a frozen waffle.

Lets look at a little math here from your figures: MW, 900 watts,120 vac equals 7.5 amps times 10 to get it to dc amps is 75 amps. It ignores inverter losses.
Two 12 volt 80 Ah batteries in parallel is 160 Ah. We don't want to go below 50% SOC, or use over 80 Ah. If the inverter is 85% efficient then your current draw is ~86 amps.
Now the good side is we don't usually run the MW for an hour but there are battery factors that may not let you get that kind of current even for a short time. A high current like that may cause the inverter to exceed it's low voltage cut off point for one.

The math indicates 2 100 watt panels at a 5% ROC are sufficient for a 106 Ah battery bank. 5% is the very lowest you want to recharge the batteries at per most manufacturers.

Bottom line is like others said you will need more solar and a much larger battery bank.
4 GC-2's or a 450Ah battery bank wants 424 watts of solar for the 5% ROC. My suggestion would be 2 250 watt panels @24 volts Vmp feeding a MPPT controller and you might be ok.
Axis 24.1 class A 500watts solar TS-45CC Trimetric
Very noisy generator :M
2016 Wrangler JK dinghy
โ€œThey who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.โ€ Benjamin Franklin

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Colo Native wrote:
I guess I should have said the MW is 900W so a little less toaster 1200w. really don't want to run anything else just warm up food or toast a frozen waffle.

You need a bigger battery bank, to run MW or toaster. 900W MW draws 1200-1300W, if not more.

Solar-wise your 5x6 ft space is (almost) enough for 2*250W panels. Each panel is 65"x39". They would require 35-40A MPPT controller (this is the only thing that your solar shop got right). Panel surface will be 3"-4" above the roof, so if you stay 14-16" from A/C and 8-10" from other structures, there will be none or very little shading.

Again - others said this already - solar of this size will NOT run MW or toaster. It will charge the battery, and the battery will run inverter. 500W solar should be enough to recharge the battery after careful use of MW and toaster, but you need a bigger battery bank. Your 2*80 AH bank is too small.

And, please don't tell that you "don't want to run anything else" ๐Ÿ™‚ - your other loads will consume another 40-50 AH a day, in addition to 40-50 AH consumed by MW and toaster.

If you are not in a hurry, you can reheat leftovers in a double-wall pot on propane stove. It's slow but it works.

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Your plan is fine. Yes it will work even if a bit marginal.
With a microwave or any electronic controls on the toaster I recommend sine wave inverter only.
I recommend Go Power inverter although you can find others for less if needed.

Ductape
Explorer
Explorer
You need big batteries and the inverter. And a charge wire (large) from your alternator. Not solar.

Charge while you drive.
49 States, 6 Provinces, 2 Territories...

DrewE
Explorer II
Explorer II
A Panasonic Inverter microwave oven would be helpful in getting the most out of a marginally sufficient inverter and battery setup. These microwaves, unlike pretty much every other one on the market, will constantly use less power on lower settings (as opposed to cycling on and off at full power). They're also somewhat more efficient and work better with an MSW inverter than a traditional microwave design.

The difference, by the way, is in the high voltage power supply for the magnetron. The usual microwave ovens use, as I understand things, a 60 Hz high-voltage transformer and a voltage doubler circuit. The inverter ovens have a high-voltage switching power supply.

However, I would really suggest trying to do your cooking using the propane cooktop (and propane oven, if you have one) rather than the microwave and electric toaster when you're not plugged into shore power and can't or don't want to run a generator. There are stovetop toaster gizmos available that work pretty well (this is a rather clever, fancy, and somewhat expensive version), or you can heat waffles in a frypan or even, with care, directly a few inches above the burner flame. Many leftovers can be reheated in a saucepan or frypan, or easily turned into some dish that can be made quickly that way by adding a sauce or incorporating into a stir-fry.

Even popcorn in a saucepan with a lid is not hard and fairly quick, about as fast as in a microwave: a little oil, enough so the kernels shift around easily, the popcorn, and cover and shake gently for a couple of minutes over high heat. It may take a time or two to figure out how much popcorn to start with, etc. Some say to preheat the oil, but I never do and it seems to work out just fine for me.

JiminDenver
Explorer II
Explorer II
2oldman wrote:
JiminDenver wrote:
440w let us use the coffee maker and microwave.
Not without sufficient batteries, unless you have a 360w toaster and you're running it at high noon.


True but what the 440w of solar did do was hold up the 250 Ah bank so that it could run those things. Unfortunately this requires direct sun and there is no midnight popcorn.
2011 GulfStream Amerilite 25BH
2003 Ford Expedition with 435w tilting portable/ TS-MPPT-45
750w solar , TS-MPPT-60 on the trailer
675 Ah bank, Trip-lite 1250fc inverter
Sportsman 2200w inverter generator

Colo_Native
Explorer
Explorer
MrWizard wrote:
Colo Native wrote:
I am going to put solar on and I was looking to get this http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-12V-Monocrystalline-Premium-Kit-p/kit-premium200d.htm with a 40A MPPT controller or the 300W setup up to 400W. I will add a 1500w inverter at a later date. What are the pros and cons of Renogy, they cost less but are close to same specs as most other 100W panels I have seen. I don't have a gold mine of money so I have to do this on a budget.

I only need to run the microwave and a toaster off the inverter, I am hoping to not ever have to buy a generator. I only need the inverter on the road between stops.


get more batteries and a smaller Microwave
a 600w cooking MW with a 1000w input, might work

the toaster is around 1200w say approx 100amps from the battery while in use
thats 50amps per battery for 12v batteries in parallel

so you must have batteries that can do that without being damaged
then the panels and alternator have to do the recharging, until you get to the campground and plug in

in an RV you don't run the MAJOR appliances from solar,, you run from the batteries and the solar recharges them,
its the very rare RV that has enough solar to directly power a toaster or MW etc..
items that use over 1000w of power while in use

I guess I should have said the MW is 900W so a little less toaster 1200w. really don't want to run anything else just warm up food or toast a frozen waffle.
2015 Winnebago Forza 34T
pushed by a 2011 Fusion Hybrid or 2020 Escape Hybrid
Retired DFD

MrWizard
Moderator
Moderator
Colo Native wrote:
I am going to put solar on and I was looking to get this http://www.renogy-store.com/200W-12V-Monocrystalline-Premium-Kit-p/kit-premium200d.htm with a 40A MPPT controller or the 300W setup up to 400W. I will add a 1500w inverter at a later date. What are the pros and cons of Renogy, they cost less but are close to same specs as most other 100W panels I have seen. I don't have a gold mine of money so I have to do this on a budget.

I only need to run the microwave and a toaster off the inverter, I am hoping to not ever have to buy a generator. I only need the inverter on the road between stops.


get more batteries and a smaller Microwave
a 600w cooking MW with a 1000w input, might work

the toaster is around 1200w say approx 100amps from the battery while in use
thats 50amps per battery for 12v batteries in parallel

so you must have batteries that can do that without being damaged
then the panels and alternator have to do the recharging, until you get to the campground and plug in

in an RV you don't run the MAJOR appliances from solar,, you run from the batteries and the solar recharges them,
its the very rare RV that has enough solar to directly power a toaster or MW etc..
items that use over 1000w of power while in use
I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

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