The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[curt12914]

To answer Guys question of why an inverter generator, the answer is that a regular generator needs to run at a predetermined rpm to maintain 60 cycles. An inverter generator can vary it's rpm, running at lower rpm when power demand is low and speeding up as load increases. It still maintains 60 cycles since the inverter regualtes the AC cycles.

To answer Pritch's question, I have seen posts that say most of the inverter generators put out a better wave than most power from the utilities.

[pritch272]

This thread is becoming interesting.

Not sure what Floyd's agenda is, we shall see.

The article about Inverter Generators is an interesting read. So, I wonder if the well endorsed Honda 2000i has a modified square wave like the EX350 noted in the article, and I wonder about the specifications of the pending inverter 2000 gen from CPE and how it stacks up against the Honda 2000i, Yamaha 2400, etc (sine wave quality).

We all know about the pure sine wave inverters vs the modified square wave, how does the Honda 2000i and CPE 2000 inverter output waveform quality compare?

[guy48065]

This excellent article uses the Honda ex350 as an example:
Inverter Generators & RVs

Maybe that's a worst-case scenario but I would expect any cheap portable inverter generator to have a dirty output. Are there any websites with good technical tests of these?

I'm skeptical because a good inverter like you might find on a boat costs more than these inverter generators.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

Might as well ask here...
Why Inverter?
I've read that inverter gennys have problems with battery chargers, microwaves, TT power converters, etc. Since these are the very things we want to power off a genset why even consider an inverter genset? Common sense leads me to ask this. Here are my assumptions: An inverter converts DC into AC by chopping up the DC into square waves, boost it, then reassembling it back into an approximation of a smooth AC sinewave. Sounds expensive & inefficient compared to a generator that naturally produces a sinewave. "Good" inverters cost way more than these import generator/inverters which leads me to assume that corners have been cut and output will not be smooth.

Are you possibly mixing-up reports of inverters with inverter generators? The only inverter generator I'm aware of that isn't sine wave is the old Honda ex350. My Honda inverter generator has a much higher quality sine wave than my Onan Microquiet. Even though a conventional generator naturally makes a sine wave, in reality it's expensive to construct one that makes a clean sine wave. Then the voltage regulators in the lower-end generators distort the waveform even more. I don't know what the waveform quality of the lower-priced inverter generators is. One low-end brand, ETQ, advertises a THD of less than 3%. If that's honest, it's a cleaner output than any small conventional generator I know of. Here's a web page that I think has a very good high-level discussion of inverter generators INVERTER GENERATOR BASICS. It says in part "In conventional electric gensets, the output is a voltage induced in a coil by a rotating magnetic field. Unlike grid-supplied electricity, this voltage is not a pure sine wave and contains high frequency harmonics. While total harmonic distortion (THD) of less than 5-6% is generally considered acceptable, some portable gensets produce a THD>15%."

With Champion's reputation I'm expecting a first-rate product. The delay in the product release just reinforces that thought.

[Old___Slow]

Yeah Guy,

I agree, let the mfg's and reps be out in the open. No smoke and mirrors. I have more questions as do you.

[guy48065]

Might as well ask here...
Why Inverter?
I've read that inverter gennys have problems with battery chargers, microwaves, TT power converters, etc. Since these are the very things we want to power off a genset why even consider an inverter genset? Common sense leads me to ask this. Here are my assumptions: An inverter converts DC into AC by chopping up the DC into square waves, boost it, then reassembling it back into an approximation of a smooth AC sinewave. Sounds expensive & inefficient compared to a generator that naturally produces a sinewave. "Good" inverters cost way more than these import generator/inverters which leads me to assume that corners have been cut and output will not be smooth.
What am I missing?
Is this just another "newer, better" thing we're supposed go purchase & landfill our old genny?
And if this has been discussed in another thread, please point me to it. (I did search...)

[guy48065]

curt12914 wrote:

DennisCPE wrote:
One of my customer service guys pointed out that I am technically not allowed to post on this board (after he read my post) I understand and will refrain from now on. I just wanted to bring clarity to a few of the comments previously posted. Happy traveling to all. DT

I, personally, think this rule should be changed. It really means a lot to some people, including me, that your company is interested enough in consumer feedback, to monitor this forum.

A couple years ago, one of Heartland RV's execs posted several times and it lead to a dialogue that solved a lot of customer problems and showed that the company really did care about what was posted on this forum.

Mr. (or Ms.) Adminstrator, Is there any chance of getting that rule changed?

I completely agree. I'm active in several forums--some with mfr/dealer involvement and some without. Initially I thought I would prefer the 'untainted' forums but over time my predisposition has been proved wrong. I now find much more value in forums that allow mfr's & their reps. It's simply better to get your information direct.

I have no dog in this race--JMO.

[msmd1]

I fired it up a few days ago. The remote worked as advertised and it was surprisingly quiet; at least quieter than what I was expecting. I feel satisfied in my decision to purchase it. Thanks, CPE! When the inverter 2k hits the market, I may own one of them too, depending on price.

[Old___Slow]

DennisCPE wrote:
One of my customer service guys pointed out that I am technically not allowed to post on this board (after he read my post) I understand and will refrain from now on. I just wanted to bring clarity to a few of the comments previously posted. Happy traveling to all. DT

Dennis,

Before your posts on this public RV.NET forum, perhaps, may be deleted, I took the opportunity to print them for the file. You have not brought any clarity. None. I don't find ChampionPowerEquipment (CPE) holding a retail or wholesale license in the USA. It seems perhaps the Champion gensets we buy are imported directly from China. I have been acquainted with World Shipping for over fifty years. Each shipment must have a import license number, mostly through a Licensed Import Brokage firm. Perhaps some big box outlets handle this operation, in house. My personal thought, CPE in California is a Warranty arm of a Chinese Company? CPE owning a factory in China is highly suspect. You must certainly understand the question of any American or Company owing a Factory in China.

Here is hoping, many new and improved Champion Brand gensets, are brought to the US market. I do believe many RV folks will be happy to see the new Champion 2000w Inverter in August 2010.

Floyd

[curt12914]

DennisCPE wrote:
One of my customer service guys pointed out that I am technically not allowed to post on this board (after he read my post) I understand and will refrain from now on. I just wanted to bring clarity to a few of the comments previously posted. Happy traveling to all. DT

I, personally, think this rule should be changed. It really means a lot to some people, including me, that your company is interested enough in consumer feedback, to monitor this forum.

A couple years ago, one of Heartland RV's execs posted several times and it lead to a dialogue that solved a lot of customer problems and showed that the company really did care about what was posted on this forum.

Mr. (or Ms.) Adminstrator, Is there any chance of getting that rule changed?

[DennisCPE]

One of my customer service guys pointed out that I am technically not allowed to post on this board (after he read my post) I understand and will refrain from now on. I just wanted to bring clarity to a few of the comments previously posted. Happy traveling to all. DT

[greenrvgreen]

Well said, Dennis.

In my personal experience, Champion gennies equal or exceed the reliability of any out there, including Honda. And Champion's customer service is in a class by itself.

Regarding making "alternative portable power is affordable to the masses", the day I bought my first generator for $199, a Champion 1200, was the day I took my camping experiences to a new level. Faced with the prospect of paying $1,000.00 for the same capability, I simply would've done without.

I was so impressed with your quality, I bought the 3500 also, which for $299 did the work of a $2,000 pair of generators. I anxiously await your inverter offering! (Depending on price)

[Old___Slow]

DennisCPE wrote:
Hi Folks. I am a new poster but certainly not new to the forum. I am the CEO of Champion Power Equipment (CPE) which is based in Santa Fe Springs, CA.
Champion Power Equipment Inc (CPE) is a California corporation.
CPE is owned by Dennis Trine and Lei Zhoa.
The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.
CPE directly employs 47 Americans, two with Purple Hearts. Indirectly, we employ well over 10,000 Americans that work in our network of service centers across the U.S.
Our JV (Joint Venture) factory in China is partially owned by myself and Mr. Zhao. All of the engineering, emission regulatory protocols, product development and management is done here in the U.S.A.
We are proud to be adding to the growing free market in China with workers that are the best paid in their county and class of trade. (Free trade is the birthplace of freedom and democracy and little Champ is making a mark in China with pride.)

Unfortunately, all portable power generators available in the U.S. today are manufactured in China. We visit regularly the Honda, Yamaha, Generac, Honeywell, Briggs and Stratton and other factories. I, for one, wish my little gens were made here in the U.S.A. For now, they can't be but we all should be glad that alternative portable power is affordable to the masses and the quality and after sales service is handled with pride and vigor by good, hard working Americans just like you.

Thanks for you time.

New names. New questions. The post is a streach! 10,000 Americans that work (indirectly) in OUR service centers?

And, all portable power generators available in the US today are manufactured in China?? Are you sure?

I own a Champion C46540 that continues to produce 120v/240v power. It has been time tested over three years and has a small oil leak. Pretty good service over all. I would buy again. CPE CS is tops. A bit of 'do it your self' in most cases that have been reported on RV.NET Tech issues. IIRC only a vary few have reported repairs, in any of your service centers.

I continue finding it difficult to find any info' concerning 'Champion (CPE)' through any search engine. I concede your Company owes me personally nothing. But when you state on a Tech page, no company info' but state, you are a "American Company owning your own factory in China", you should understand, there is real doubt.

Floyd

[DennisCPE]

Hi Folks. I am a new poster but certainly not new to the forum. I am the CEO of Champion Power Equipment (CPE) which is based in Santa Fe Springs, CA.
Champion Power Equipment Inc (CPE) is a California corporation.
CPE is owned by Dennis Trine and Lei Zhoa.
The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.
CPE directly employs 47 Americans, two with Purple Hearts. Indirectly, we employ well over 10,000 Americans that work in our network of service centers across the U.S.
Our JV (Joint Venture) factory in China is partially owned by myself and Mr. Zhao. All of the engineering, emission regulatory protocols, product development and management is done here in the U.S.A.
We are proud to be adding to the growing free market in China with workers that are the best paid in their county and class of trade. (Free trade is the birthplace of freedom and democracy and little Champ is making a mark in China with pride.)

Unfortunately, all portable power generators available in the U.S. today are manufactured in China. We visit regularly the Honda, Yamaha, Generac, Honeywell, Briggs and Stratton and other factories. I, for one, wish my little gens were made here in the U.S.A. For now, they can't be but we all should be glad that alternative portable power is affordable to the masses and the quality and after sales service is handled with pride and vigor by good, hard working Americans just like you.

Thanks for you time.

[Old___Slow]

Tony F. wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum, and new to searching for a generator. Until recently I had set my mind on twin 2kw Hondas, but the $$ was just too hard to part with. I saw the ad in the latest Costco coupon book a few days ago and was intrigued by the remote start 3kw Champion, so I started doing some research.

What I learned was very surprising to me. First, this is not a "Chinese" product in the strictest sense. This is an America owned company, with American engineering and support. The products are made in their own factory in China. This differs from typical Chinese products that are made by Chinese owned companies, or by American companies who contract with a Chinese factory to build their products.

Champion has full control of every step. The fact that they are using Chinese labor is a non issue.

Regarding Champion's track record, they've been making products for about 7 years now and - here's the interesting part - have NEVER had a recall. Never. That is a significant statement when you consider the fast pace new products are being introduced. Honda and Yamaha cannot make that same claim.

Finally, I own 4 Toyota vehicles. From 1997 to 2007, and like them all. However, my next vehicle will likely be a Hyundai. Why? Because they now have the fewer failures per thousand than any other brand in the world. In other words, they have surpassed Toyota and Honda for quality in one of the most indicative quality measurements there are. As a very loyal and long term Toyota customer, I am willing to look beyond my prejudices in order to find the best products for the money. The same goes for my generator purchase. Although I have little generator experience, I have been doing a lot of reading and talking to fellow campers. There are thousands of well informed people out there saying the same great things about Champion. I hope I've drawn a clear parallel there.

I'm not trying to bag on anyone or any product, but I think it would behoove anyone interested in an inverter generator to give this new product a good look.

Besides, the stacking, and the semi-integrated parallel kit is way cool.

Tony

Tony F,

I notice a post on Costco reviews of the new Champion by 'AZtravler' Gilbert, Az. The post uses the same lauguage as in this post, so I assume you are one and the same. Darn, I can't get 'your profile' to open on this thread.

You need to varify the facts you post. I don't think the facts and what you report about Champion (CPE) are correct. I ask again. How many USA citizans did I help to put food on their table, by buying a Champion Generator. Lot's of people get confused about CPE and the name of Champion. They are not always one and the same. Lot's of Champion products, like "Windows" for one that have no connection to Champion (CPE). This story about Champion (CPE) owning a factory being a US Company in China, got any proof? Champion (CPE) a Chinese outfit, may will have their Warranty crew set up in the US? So all these statements made by AZtraver/Tony F about Champion (CPE) being an American Company and owning their own factory in China must be in error. Can't find any public records to support your claims. They are not even a member of the BBB, to my knowledge.

I own a Champion C46540 and have for three years.

Floyd