The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[McZippie]

galangmaid wrote:
I have a silly question. If a MH is only protected by 30 amp fuses and use a 30 amp type MH plug etc. why would anyone need a generator with more than 3750 watts (125v x 30 amps = 3750 watts) or am I missing something.

As wvojak wrote, plus can plug other stuff into the aux outlets of a larger generator.

Like say we're chill'in in the kitch'in under the AC mixing up some foo-foo drinks with a blender. DW get's out of the shower and plugs in her hair dryer. Circuit breaker pops.

Wifey can reset the breaker and then go outside and plug her hair dryer directly into the generator.

Now we're back mix'in and chill'in in the kitch'in with the Blender, under the AC and DW is a Hair'a Dry'in all at the same time.

[McZippie]

professor95 wrote:


As for the Lifian electric start..... well, it looks and sounds great. I just don't know about the longer term service and support the product will have. I am waiting to learn on that one too.

Just checked with UPS tracker on the ordered Lifan 2200/Invertor/Electric Start. Should arrive tomorrow.

I'll start a new topic after I get it taken apart and put back together. Complete with eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph about each one.

[curt12914]

professor95 wrote:
Have you ever been fired up, angry and incised by the comments someone made in regard to an object, facility, or program you have worked hard to achieve? Like maybe some makes a disparaging comment about your truck or camper that you are extremely proud of?

I know I have.

I'll take that one step further. I was ridiculed (and still am in a few threads) by the "red" and "blue" guys for recommending the Champion as an affordable generator alternative to the "red" and "blue" inverter generators. (By the way, if you check my signature below, you will see I am a "red" guy.)

I have always tried to be fair about the pros and cons of the inverter generator verses the inexpensive Chinese generators. At first I went mostly on what I read on here, but I now have a few friends that are using Champions. My "twins" have a few advantages, but I'm not sure those advantages are worth $1400 - $1500.

professor95 wrote:
Price? Who knows. Digitalis are not like synchronous as far as the cost to manufacturer and provide a warranty for. If you have a failure in the inverter circuity you do not "fix it" - you throw it away. There is little to nothing a small engine service center can do to repair an electronic circuit board in their shop. Same is true for Honda, Yamaha and others. No doubt about it.

.... unless the new CPE inverter genny has features, price and durability competitive with the Honda, Yamaha and Kipor it will not be a hot sales item. I sure as heck would not buy one over a Honda just to save $100. There would have to be more - like good service and support, reasonably priced parts readily available and durability. Again - we will have to wait and see.

As I have said before, IMHO, price is the biggest advantage of the Champion and other inverter generators. If there is not a significant price advantage, I, personally, will go with a proven "red" or "blue" generator with nationwide parts and service.

Champion can claim nationwide service centers all they want, but the truth is most of their "service centers" are independently owned repair shops that neither sell nor have parts or training on Champion generators. IMHO, it would be kind of like an automaker saying they have nationwide service centers and depending on local mechanics and parts stores for repairs.

A friend bought a rototiller from a local Tractor Supply store and had problems. I could tell you his opinion of their local repair shop that does their service work, but the mods would remove all the colorful adjectives he uses to get his point across.

professor95 wrote:
... In any event, I really have no interest in yet another 2,000 watt genny that will not power my RV air conditioner. I would need two to accomplish that and fail to see the point in buying twins.

OK, We disagree on this point.

Sure there are some disdvantages to "twins", but there are many advantages, too. Lightweight, easy to move and store, versatility and size are all advantages of the smaller twins

professor95 wrote:
As for the new CPE electric start/remote controlled open frame synchronous model from Costco and the buyer comments at that site? I will put absolutely NO faith in those comments unless there are at least 200 or more or all negative. Even that is not a high enough number to be a valid sample.

One point to keep in mind about reviews (of anything). Satisfied customers are usually quiet, since they have no reason to say much, but unhappy customers are usually frustrated and one way they deal with their frustration is to scream to anyone that will listen.

professor95 wrote:
What the heck does CPE's attitude toward their local BBB have to do with anything anyway? As far as the term "UnAmerican", well I guess it would have been better accepted if he had said UnChinese 🙂 It was just a response indicating he did not like the way they operate. Big deal. I don't like PETA, NRA, NEA, GOP, AARP, AAA and a slew of others because of the way they operate - thus I don't support them

Just my views, nothing else. But, I still don't understand what the big deal or attacks on CPE are all about.

Boy, do we ever have a lot of the same views!!! I could add a few to your list of organizations.

My personal opinion of the BBB is they started out as a well intentioned organization, but they, like all others, are subject to the liability of the big organizations and have lost most of their strength to speak the truth, because of the fear of lawsuits.

As far as Champion, I am veryy happy that they have created some competition in the RV generator market. It gives us all an option. All we can do is benefit from added competition.

[wvojak]

Some MHs use a 50 Amp service.

Neighbor has a MH that uses two 30 Amp services.

Also, a 3,750 watt unit has the potential of running full RPM the majority of the time, especially for people camping in hot climates, running their AC full blast.

Finally, a generator looses something like 3% of their output for every 1,000 feet of elevation. Actually it's the engine, not the generator that looses the output. So if your camping at 6,500 ft elevation, your 3,750 gen will only be capable of producing ~3,000 watts. This can be corrected by installing high altitude jets in the carb.

In general, I believe you are correct that one could get by with a generator that has a capacity = to the plug connection capacity

[galangmaid]

I have a silly question. If a MH is only protected by 30 amp fuses and use a 30 amp type MH plug etc. why would anyone need a generator with more than 3750 watts (125v x 30 amps = 3750 watts) or am I missing something.

[wvojak]

pritch272 wrote:
oops, didn't intend to leave out a major player in the quiet 2000 watt inverter market. It does make me feel a little better about the size.

It's a very valid question/issue.

I'm trying to decide between a Honda 2000 or a Yamaha 2000. (If the Champion inverter was available now for ~$500, I'd go for it instead)

I like a lot of the featured on the Yamaha, but the engine size is one concern.

I keep hearing that the Yamaha 2400i is such a great generator BECAUSE it has an over-sized engine (171cc, 5.5 hp) Because of that, it is very good about holding surge power for quite a long time (~15 minutes)

It also seems to me that a big engine running easy, will outlast a little engine running harder.

Just my $0.02. . .

[professor95]

Have you ever been fired up, angry and incised by the comments someone made in regard to an object, facility, or program you have worked hard to achieve? Like maybe some makes a disparaging comment about your truck or camper that you are extremely proud of?

I know I have.

When this happens I do my best to count to ten before I say anything - because you can't take it back once it is said.

I have never met Dennis at CPE and have only exchanged one e-mail with him in 5 years. But, I do know that he has worked hard to make Champion Power Equipment into the successful, respected company that it is today. He is not a sell and run type of guy.

I am still somewhat confused as to the vigilante attitude that a few have expressed toward CPE and Dennis. It appears that there is some serious nitpicking going on and his comment and feelings toward his BBB really have nothing to do with the many years of excellent customer service and products they deliver.

You know, I can take most any comment or response anyone makes and find something to criticize. Shucks, that is the way politicians survive!

In the market of 3,000 watt class synchronous Chinese built generators, who do we have? Let's see.... CPE of course. Then there is DuroPower. Cummings-Onan sells a model. So does ProPower (Northern). Gentron has one. So does Lifian and Harbour Freight. Then there is the AllPower....... can't think of any others at the moment but there are more.

So, of the above listing, which one appears to offer the best customer service and pricing for a quality product? You tell me!

So now we switch to digital or inverter models. Champion does not have one on the market yet that they build. I know one person that seems to think they are available due to a web site's advertising, but CPE says no. What he is reading is vaporware.

There were a few "bugs" in the initial CPE built digital. So, rather than sell them knowing customers would likely have some issues, they delayed distribution until they get the "bug" fixed. Now, they tell me late August as the earliest for the actual product to be available. Personally, I like a company NOT selling a product with know problems.

Price? Who knows. Digitalis are not like synchronous as far as the cost to manufacturer and provide a warranty for. If you have a failure in the inverter circuity you do not "fix it" - you throw it away. There is little to nothing a small engine service center can do to repair an electronic circuit board in their shop. Same is true for Honda, Yamaha and others.

These inverter boards are somewhat expensive. There are not enough being made to bring production cost down to a DVD player level.

Another issue to think about.... Honda has a patent on their inverter. They are serious about enforcing it too. Several early inverter generator manufacturers found themselves in legal trouble for using Honda technology. While I have not seen one as of yet, the CPE inverter board is not a copy. It is all new engineering. In fact, I understand the digital inverter board was submitted to Honda for review to satisfy it was not an infringement on their patent! Only time will tell if it is as good as or better than the others. At least there is a two year warranty on the inverter.

No doubt about it..... unless the new CPE inverter genny has features, price and durability competitive with the Honda, Yamaha and Kipor it will not be a hot sales item. I sure as heck would not buy one over a Honda just to save $100. There would have to be more - like good service and support, reasonably priced parts readily available and durability. Again - we will have to wait and see. In any event, I really have no interest in yet another 2,000 watt genny that will not power my RV air conditioner. I would need two to accomplish that and fail to see the point in buying twins.

As for the Lifian electric start..... well, it looks and sounds great. I just don't know about the longer term service and support the product will have. I am waiting to learn on that one too.

As for the new CPE electric start/remote controlled open frame synchronous model from Costco and the buyer comments at that site? I will put absolutely NO faith in those comments unless there are at least 200 or more or all negative. Even that is not a high enough number to be a valid sample.

Some may not like me or what I say. I'm not sure why but I do know some folks are not happy unless they are unhappy about something. Anyway, I gave an extensive review and test of the new model CPE, including scope pictures of the waveform. None of it was faked or retouched. Unless you don't understand what I did, you can learn a lot about that new genny by reviewing the test and videos.

What the heck does CPE's attitude toward their local BBB have to do with anything anyway? As far as the term "UnAmerican", well I guess it would have been better accepted if he had said UnChinese 🙂 It was just a response indicating he did not like the way they operate. Big deal. I don't like PETA, NRA, NEA, GOP, AARP, AAA and a slew of others because of the way they operate - thus I don't support them.

Just my views, nothing else. But, I still don't understand what the big deal or attacks on CPE are all about.

[pritch272]

byates-

So, you make the 2nd poster to take issue with Dennis's comments, Floyd being the first...

Interesting.

I'm just going to sit back for a while and see how the new inverter generator is received and performs, then I'll decide (primarily on the merits and cost of the generator).

[byates]

byates wrote:

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:

DennisCPE wrote:

The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.

With all due respect, what's un-American about paying for services provided by the BBB?

Bill,

I "think" what Dennis was saying is that the BBB there expects payment for a high rating -or- a business must be a paid member to get anything but a bum rating.

At one time the BBB accepted NO money from business's it rated and membership in the BBB did not require the paying of "dues" -- only an agreement to participate in arbitration. Apparently that has all changed.

If that is true, then I would say that the BBB is participating in an unethical business practice, exactly the opposite of what I thought the BBB's mission is, which is to identify unethical business practices. Hard to believe.

This exchange of information got me to thinking, as many other comments in this and other threads do. So I went to the BBB website. The BBB does charge a fee for accreditation of a business, which is basically an agreement to adhere to the BBB's code of business practices. http://www.bbb.org/us/bbb-accreditation-standards/.
I can understand why a business would want this accreditation and also why a business might not want to pay the fee. But I wouldn't call the fee Un-American, if I chose not to participate.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:

Every time I return an item to Costco, the first thing they ask for is my membership card. Don't know how the store return policy works for a non-member.

Your receipt is different when you order on-line than when you check out in the store. If you are a non-member that paid the additional $19 you are assigned a temporary customer number for that order. That takes the place of your membership card on a return. But, I am pretty sure you also need to show some ID as well.

A temporary customer number makes sense to me.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

byates wrote:

DennisCPE wrote:

The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.

With all due respect, what's un-American about paying for services provided by the BBB?

Bill,

I "think" what Dennis was saying is that the BBB there expects payment for a high rating -or- a business must be a paid member to get anything but a bum rating.

At one time the BBB accepted NO money from business's it rated and membership in the BBB did not require the paying of "dues" -- only an agreement to participate in arbitration. Apparently that has all changed.

If that is true, then I would say that the BBB is participating in an unethical business practice, exactly the opposite of what I thought the BBB's mission is, which is to identify unethical business practices. Hard to believe.

[professor95]

byates wrote:

Every time I return an item to Costco, the first thing they ask for is my membership card. Don't know how the store return policy works for a non-member.

Your receipt is different when you order on-line than when you check out in the store. If you are a non-member that paid the additional $19 you are assigned a temporary customer number for that order. That takes the place of your membership card on a return. But, I am pretty sure you also need to show some ID as well.

[professor95]

byates wrote:

DennisCPE wrote:

The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.

With all due respect, what's un-American about paying for services provided by the BBB?

Bill,

I "think" what Dennis was saying is that the BBB there expects payment for a high rating -or- a business must be a paid member to get anything but a bum rating.

At one time the BBB accepted NO money from business's it rated and membership in the BBB did not require the paying of "dues" -- only an agreement to participate in arbitration. Apparently that has all changed.

[professor95]

byates wrote:
I will be able to purchase in about a month, but am willing to wait a while if the price is coming back down. What information can I rely on that the price will drop in the next year?
Thanks.

None.

The selling price will be a result of the exchange rate of the US dollar, our economy, competition, taxes, the Chinese economy, how may hurricanes or ice storms we have to clear inventory -- just to name a few variables.


But, historically, the price of these products have either remained steady or dropped as production gears up and more vendors add the product to their sales line. Buyers for vendors like Home Depot, Lowe's, Tractor Supply, etc. have more computer models for forecasting what products buyers will take home for what price than the number of fleas on a opossum. Sometimes a vendor's buying (or lack of it) truly mystify me.

[byates]

Old & Slow wrote:

pritch272 wrote:
Looks like backupgenerators.com is now selling the new champion inverter...

Too much $$$ IMO.

Hmmm,

Pritch272,

I just clicked on this outfit in Sand Point, ID (backupgenerators.com) and they show the New Champion 73531i IN STOCK and will ship 3/5 days. Price $699.95

Now here is the kicker. They also show the new Champion 46538 IN STOCK at $599.95. These must be the units Costco.com showed as out of stock three days before the sale ended?? Price went up from $369 to now $599

Not finding any new reviews for the 46538?

Maybe someone knows what's up?

Floyd


PS: The new Green Lifan looks good and with the full 125cc engine, 2000w running and Electric Start @ 629 ~ Plus the MIX & MATCH, add a gen option. Can't wait for the McZip review.

Mr. Floyd,
Costco.com had a few reviews before the Champion promo was pulled from their website. If I recall, most were favorable, with a couple of negative reviews. One reviewer observed that the unit was shipped without oil and care should be taken to not overfill. Another reviewer reported excessive engine noise and returned it.
The favorable reviews were typical-received in great shape, started on the first pull, not as loud as expected, etc.
It will probably be a while before other online vendors start posting reviews.
Does anyone know if brick and stone vendors such as Tractor Supply, Lowes, etc will be carrying this generator? I am leary of purchasing from online vendors, Costco excepted.