The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[tobywrangler]

tobywrangler wrote:
I thought I would post my experience so far with the Champion Model# 45638 from Costco. The first one that I ordered and received had several parts broken in the box.

* Air cleaner cover was cracked
* Auto choke assembly was bent
* Ground terminal lug was bent
* Battery was not fully seated in its holder and upon further inspection, there was a big hole in it where it made contact with the engine (acid leaked out at some point)
* There was a small spring at the bottom of the box amongst the broken plastic pieces..not sure where it came from.

I decided to return it to Costco since there was so much damage (returned with no problems). I decided to order another one, hoping for better shipping results. I received the second one today and both of the round motor mounts where broken in two and the other two (square) are splitting. I am not sure if this is just bad luck or the packaging Engineer did a poor job. I am sure the shipping companies do not handle the boxes in the best way since they are so heavy. Well, I will be calling Champion in the morning with this info. I will keep you posted.

Well as a follow up, I received the replacement parts from CPE. I assembled the generator and filled it with fluids. I tried to start it and only got a single click sound. I pressed the switch again and nothing happened. I tried using the remote which gave the click sound again followed by smoke and the smell of burnt electronics.

I returned it to Costco today and they gave the indication that this was not the first one they have seen returned. I am not sure if I just had bad luck with these two units, but I have given up on them. I should not have to be repairing a brand new unit right out of the box. Luckily I found a good deal on a Yamaha today.

[professor95]

Monster Maker wrote:

it IS Ok to parallel different size Hondas! I've done it many times, with 1000, 2000, and 3000 watt EU-series units. They work fine together, and no, the smaller one does not just immediately overload as suspected by people who haven't tried it!

OK - you seem to know more about this system than other contributors. I am interested in knowing how 2 units are synchronized. There has to be some trigger that tells the two gennys how to produce an identical sine wave at the same time. I understand the theory and principle, but I do not have two inverter generators nor the "parallel kit".

Can you provide any technical information as to how all of this works?

[Monster_Maker]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:
The Lifan ad copy says it's ok to parallel one of the generators with another Lifan of any size. If their sales take off, I wonder if it will suddenly be ok to parallel different size Hondas? Gotta love the new innovations: "the power is digitally cleaned ".

it IS Ok to parallel different size Hondas! I've done it many times, with 1000, 2000, and 3000 watt EU-series units. They work fine together, and no, the smaller one does not just immediately overload as suspected by people who haven't tried it!

[Old___Slow]

DennisCPE wrote:
Hi Folks. I am a new poster but certainly not new to the forum. I am the CEO of Champion Power Equipment (CPE) which is based in Santa Fe Springs, CA.
Champion Power Equipment Inc (CPE) is a California corporation.
CPE is owned by Dennis Trine and Lei Zhoa.
The BBB in Colton, CA is not the Better Busines Bureau we all grew up with. The one here in California requires you to pay for your rating. It is un-American and I won't support them.
CPE directly employs 47 Americans, two with Purple Hearts. Indirectly, we employ well over 10,000 Americans that work in our network of service centers across the U.S.
Our JV (Joint Venture) factory in China is partially owned by myself and Mr. Zhao. All of the engineering, emission regulatory protocols, product development and management is done here in the U.S.A.
We are proud to be adding to the growing free market in China with workers that are the best paid in their county and class of trade. (Free trade is the birthplace of freedom and democracy and little Champ is making a mark in China with pride.)

Unfortunately, all portable power generators available in the U.S. today are manufactured in China. We visit regularly the Honda, Yamaha, Generac, Honeywell, Briggs and Stratton and other factories. I, for one, wish my little gens were made here in the U.S.A. For now, they can't be but we all should be glad that alternative portable power is affordable to the masses and the quality and after sales service is handled with pride and vigor by good, hard working Americans just like you.

Thanks for you time.

Not sure if anyone welcomed you to RV.Net. Perhaps that may have been because of the statement, you are not new to the forum. That being the case, my posts are not new to you. I have supported Champion (CPE) in hundreds of posts. Agreed, many have been in the form of questions. And I think you will agree, this is how we all learn the answers we look to find. Many times a post is placed to try and make sure we do not interpret incorrectly any information about Champion (CPE). So, ask we do. I trust this type Q & A fits in with your desire of total openness.

You state, 'all the engineering, etc. is done here in the US'. For the present production gensets and the future 2000w Inverter and others to follow, may I ask, how many patents do you (CPE) hold?

Floyd

[Old___Slow]

pritch272 wrote:
Seems I may be closer to being a guinea pig for the new Champion Inverter gen than I originally thought. Sold a couple of items on CL yesterday and now have almost $500 set aside, so if if the genny is priced close to that, I'll definitely spring for one next month.

Yes, the reds and blues have good track records, but my gut is telling me that this yellow one is going to be right there along side of them. CPE has an exellent track record, when there is a problem you can deal with CPE, not the vendor who sold it.

Like the professor said, CPE is taking their time in putting this to market, it's been a 2 year project for CPE, and the design is their own, they are not going to release until ready. There are also 1000 and 3000 watt inverters on the CPE horizon as well, but like the 2000 watt, they will not be released until fully ready. This tells me CPE is in it for the long haul, taking pride in the quality and ensuring a product that went put out to the market will stay out. That's what really counts IMO, quality at a decent price point, and backing. We all want stuff as cheap as possible, but you get what you pay for (sometimes we pay too much). CPE took a beating on the initial release of the Remote Start, I asked if they would do it for the inverter release, no.

I've had the Honeywell, although it worked, I really didn't care for it, the few times I used it, it would not idle steady (even with fresh sea foam treated gas), it was always hunting (unless under load, which then was pretty loud), it did not convey any substantial level of quality, the case cover made a lot of noise, I had to put foam around it to eliminate that noise. I didn't have any sense of confidence that it would be there when needed. Add in the reported multiple failures, I predicted the future and sold it. The All Power that I have seems to be very solidly built, runs smooth, and I like it, if it could have been paralleled I would have bought another in a heartbeat.

Although they look good on paper, I'm not going to consider the Lifan, their 2200 is reportedly made in the same factory as the Honeywell, both based on a 125cc motorcycle engine, product return rates could be similar. Curious on how the Lifans play out.

I personally do not have any problem with products made outside of the USA, it is a fact of life. Yes, we all want to "buy American", but in reality it is what it is. My primary basis for a purchase (besides price, of course) is quality of the product and the backing that it will get if I have a problem. Whenever I've needed tools over the years, I don't think about where I will buy, I just hit the local Sears as their lifetime warranty and their backing of the tool is a no-brainer.

The info about the BBB, there exists several other web sites with enough info that convices me with absolutely no doubt that they are not what they might have been. Their primary (perhaps sole) source of funds are memberships and fees derived from businesses, and there are many unhappy businesses being hammered for fees in order to get a good rating. There ratings are essentially worthless to consumers as the basis for the ratings are worthless. I'm going to get off the BBB theme, but, suffice to say that when Dennis stated that the BBB was Un-American, it was because the BBB was extorting him telling him to pay big bucks in order to raise the rating, with no regard to resolved or unresolved complaints, so I for one, after reading all that I have, believe it beyond any shadow of any doubt.

Anyhoo, enough rambling... Looking forward to getting one of these inverter gens next month.

Well, what can I say. My original point was, the first time I opened the Champion (CPE) website, I was impressed with the statement. "We are an American Company with our own factory in China".

Floyd

[pritch272]

Seems I may be closer to being a guinea pig for the new Champion Inverter gen than I originally thought. Sold a couple of items on CL yesterday and now have almost $500 set aside, so if if the genny is priced close to that, I'll definitely spring for one next month.

Yes, the reds and blues have good track records, but my gut is telling me that this yellow one is going to be right there along side of them. CPE has an exellent track record, when there is a problem you can deal with CPE, not the vendor who sold it.

Like the professor said, CPE is taking their time in putting this to market, it's been a 2 year project for CPE, and the design is their own, they are not going to release until ready. There are also 1000 and 3000 watt inverters on the CPE horizon as well, but like the 2000 watt, they will not be released until fully ready. This tells me CPE is in it for the long haul, taking pride in the quality and ensuring a product that went put out to the market will stay out. That's what really counts IMO, quality at a decent price point, and backing. We all want stuff as cheap as possible, but you get what you pay for (sometimes we pay too much). CPE took a beating on the initial release of the Remote Start, I asked if they would do it for the inverter release, no.

I've had the Honeywell, although it worked, I really didn't care for it, the few times I used it, it would not idle steady (even with fresh sea foam treated gas), it was always hunting (unless under load, which then was pretty loud), it did not convey any substantial level of quality, the case cover made a lot of noise, I had to put foam around it to eliminate that noise. I didn't have any sense of confidence that it would be there when needed. Add in the reported multiple failures, I predicted the future and sold it. The All Power that I have seems to be very solidly built, runs smooth, and I like it, if it could have been paralleled I would have bought another in a heartbeat.

Although they look good on paper, I'm not going to consider the Lifan, their 2200 is reportedly made in the same factory as the Honeywell, both based on a 125cc motorcycle engine, product return rates could be similar. Curious on how the Lifans play out.

I personally do not have any problem with products made outside of the USA, it is a fact of life. Yes, we all want to "buy American", but in reality it is what it is. My primary basis for a purchase (besides price, of course) is quality of the product and the backing that it will get if I have a problem. Whenever I've needed tools over the years, I don't think about where I will buy, I just hit the local Sears as their lifetime warranty and their backing of the tool is a no-brainer.

The info about the BBB, there exists several other web sites with enough info that convices me with absolutely no doubt that they are not what they might have been. Their primary (perhaps sole) source of funds are memberships and fees derived from businesses, and there are many unhappy businesses being hammered for fees in order to get a good rating. There ratings are essentially worthless to consumers as the basis for the ratings are worthless. I'm going to get off the BBB theme, but, suffice to say that when Dennis stated that the BBB was Un-American, it was because the BBB was extorting him telling him to pay big bucks in order to raise the rating, with no regard to resolved or unresolved complaints, so I for one, after reading all that I have, believe it beyond any shadow of any doubt.

Anyhoo, enough rambling... Looking forward to getting one of these inverter gens next month.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

pritch272 wrote:


I do believe that Dennis may have a legitimate beef with the BBB, and after reading some of the posts and rebuttals against the BBB, I do not put any significant value to BBB ratings.

Here is one such site.

Now, that was an extremely interesting read!!!! Anyone that feels the BBB is the absolute source for a companies business rating might want to take a hard look at this.

I am under the impression that individual BBB's by locality or state, while linked, may have extremely different practices.

I agree. Ratings, whether BBB, Costco, Amazon, etc., should not be taken as absolute fact, but should be used as input into the process of forming one's own opinion about a product or company.
That said, I did a little research into the business practices of the aforementioned heating and air contractor. That also was an interesting read.

[professor95]

pritch272 wrote:


I do believe that Dennis may have a legitimate beef with the BBB, and after reading some of the posts and rebuttals against the BBB, I do not put any significant value to BBB ratings.

Here is one such site.

Now, that was an extremely interesting read!!!! Anyone that feels the BBB is the absolute source for a companies business rating might want to take a hard look at this.

I am under the impression that individual BBB's by locality or state, while linked, may have extremely different practices.

[McZippie]

professor95 wrote:

McZippie wrote:

professor95 wrote:


As for the Lifian electric start..... well, it looks and sounds great. I just don't know about the longer term service and support the product will have. I am waiting to learn on that one too.

Just checked with UPS tracker on the ordered Lifan 2200/Invertor/Electric Start. Should arrive tomorrow.

I'll start a new topic after I get it taken apart and put back together. Complete with eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph about each one.

Please, please share your testing and impression about your purchase.

I did some searching with GOOGLE and discovered Lifan is heavily into scooters and motorcycles. They also have a car that they hope to market in the USA soon. But, their generator info is lacking. One site is advertising a synchronous 3,500 watt Lifan as an inverter, but it is NOT an inverter.

On the Home Depot site the first review states:

I think the Lifan and Honeywell are made by the same people, they are almost the same as the way they are constructed. I purchased the Lifan 2600 because I thought it would pull my 13,500btu Carrier Air Conditioner on my camper. It would pull it early in the morning before 80 degrees but when it got hot around noon it would not kick the compressor. I tested it before a camping trip. I hated to but I returned it to my local Home Depot.

I sincerely hope the Honneywell is not built by Lifan. The longer term reports by some Honneywell owners is discouraging. The statement that the 2,600 would not run his 13.5K BTU A/C is also disappointing. Maybe he needs a Supra6 on his A/C?

Again, please share your evaluation.

Will do... It arrived today. First impression:
Looks well made, not quite up to Honda standards for fit and finish, but still very acceptable.
Came with a really funny Engrish manual :h
It's big, like 2" to 3" more than Honda 2000i in all 3 dimensions.
Didn't start it yet, have to business travel for a few days.
If I'm going to keep it, all the plastic covers will be removed and it'll be modified to fit under my rig with controls inside.
No worries, I'll post a lot more next week 🙂

[pritch272]

As to the comments about the BBB... I haven't used the BBB for several years, but the comments here sparked a little Googling. Didn't take me very much effort to find many dissatisfied businesses about how the BBB operates, definitely illuminating.

I do believe that Dennis may have a legitimate beef with the BBB, and after reading some of the posts and rebuttals against the BBB, I do not put any significant value to BBB ratings.

Here is one such site.

As indicated earlier, I will base my decision to purchase on how the product performs and how it is accepted. CPE has such a terrific track record of service after the sale (as reported several times on this board), and that carries significantly more weight with me than any BBB rating would.

[professor95]

McZippie wrote:

professor95 wrote:


As for the Lifian electric start..... well, it looks and sounds great. I just don't know about the longer term service and support the product will have. I am waiting to learn on that one too.

Just checked with UPS tracker on the ordered Lifan 2200/Invertor/Electric Start. Should arrive tomorrow.

I'll start a new topic after I get it taken apart and put back together. Complete with eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph about each one.

Please, please share your testing and impression about your purchase.

I did some searching with GOOGLE and discovered Lifan is heavily into scooters and motorcycles. They also have a car that they hope to market in the USA soon. But, their generator info is lacking. One site is advertising a synchronous 3,500 watt Lifan as an inverter, but it is NOT an inverter.

On the Home Depot site the first review states:

I think the Lifan and Honeywell are made by the same people, they are almost the same as the way they are constructed. I purchased the Lifan 2600 because I thought it would pull my 13,500btu Carrier Air Conditioner on my camper. It would pull it early in the morning before 80 degrees but when it got hot around noon it would not kick the compressor. I tested it before a camping trip. I hated to but I returned it to my local Home Depot.

I sincerely hope the Honneywell is not built by Lifan. The longer term reports by some Honneywell owners is discouraging. The statement that the 2,600 would not run his 13.5K BTU A/C is also disappointing. Maybe he needs a Supra6 on his A/C?

Again, please share your evaluation.

[professor95]

byates wrote:


First, I would like to say that I am disappointed and sorry that my input to your thread has deteriorated to this.

I asked a simple question, as the comment struck me as unusually strong, especially coming from an executive of such a public company. I had always thought that the BBB provided consumers with valuable information. In fact I have used their services.

If my statements are read objectively, they do not warrant the reaction that has been displayed by some. In fact, I stated that if the BBB is requiring a fee payment for a good rating, then the BBB is acting unethically. I have no first hand knowledge that this practice occurs, but some seem to think so.

On the question of reviews of the new Champion, I offered what I could recall from the Costco reviews. I didn't offer my opinion on the validity of the reviews, believing, but not stating, that each individual should form his own opinion of their validity.

On a lighter note, the last time I was in your area of the state was 1960, playing for the high school state championship against Richmond Academy. Good luck on your future decisions regarding the inverter generator.

Bill,

This is one of the risks we face when we do not really know each other - misinterpretation or misunderstanding.

While I now KNOW it was not your intent (it has taken a few postings to learn) I had the feeling based upon a few initial comments when you joined that your daggers were drawn against CPE and, in some ways, me as a conduit for information about CPE products. But, that is water over the bridge and it is best not to go there again.

On a lighter note, it is not MY thread. Nor does it belong to anyone else that chooses to be here. The last thing I want to own is an Internet thread! As it is, I have way too much junque in my shop, barn and on my property now without something else in cyberspace :).

I sincerely apologize for anything I may have done to put you on the defensive.

[byates]

pritch272 wrote:
byates-

So, you make the 2nd poster to take issue with Dennis's comments, Floyd being the first...

Interesting.

I'm just going to sit back for a while and see how the new inverter generator is received and performs, then I'll decide (primarily on the merits and cost of the generator).

First, I would like to say that I am disappointed and sorry that my input to your thread has deteriorated to this.

I asked a simple question, as the comment struck me as unusually strong, especially coming from an executive of such a public company. I had always thought that the BBB provided consumers with valuable information. In fact I have used their services.

If my statements are read objectively, they do not warrant the reaction that has been displayed by some. In fact, I stated that if the BBB is requiring a fee payment for a good rating, then the BBB is acting unethically. I have no first hand knowledge that this practice occurs, but some seem to think so.

On the question of reviews of the new Champion, I offered what I could recall from the Costco reviews. I didn't offer my opinion on the validity of the reviews, believing, but not stating, that each individual should form his own opinion of their validity.

On a lighter note, the last time I was in your area of the state was 1960, playing for the high school state championship against Richmond Academy. Good luck on your future decisions regarding the inverter generator.

[professor95]

Curt,

You are correct on the service center issue. But, Champion has removed quite a few from their list (and added some) for the reasons you cite. I believe this to be true based on what their man in charge of service has shared with me. The point is these repair facilities have agreed in advance to service CPE equipment. Just a few years ago most of these shops would have sent the owner of such equipment packing. But, with the knowledge that they will get paid and parts are quickly shipped they are eager for the service business. Are they as good as Red or Blue service centers? Probably not -- but better than the brands that offer no payment or parts guarantee to the service center.

I was too hasty on my comment about the twins. There are a lot of advantages. #1 as you pointed out is each one weighs less, thus they can be loaded by an old guy like me more easily. Also, when less power is needed, you only power up one. Yes, I would own and use a set of two 2,000 watt units. But, all other problems aside I would rather pay for a single 3,000 watt unit than two 2,000 watt units and the kit to hook them in parallel.

I really believe CPE is "missing the boat" by not offering ES and a higher wattage. Now, if they would just combine their remote electric start with a 3,000 watt inverter I would be a lot more excited about the unveiling of the product. It will be a tough market to compete in since virtually everyone has a 2,000 watt inverter offering. Hopefully they are "just testing the waters" and will up the offering at a later date.

[professor95]

galangmaid wrote:
I have a silly question. If a MH is only protected by 30 amp fuses and use a 30 amp type MH plug etc. why would anyone need a generator with more than 3750 watts (125v x 30 amps = 3750 watts) or am I missing something.

You cannot compare 30 amps or 3,600 watts of power from a generator to the same amount of power from a utility (shore power).

I know it sounds crazy because it would seem that 3,600 watts = 3,600 watts no matter where it comes from.

Allow me to use an analogy. It may only take 10 horse power to maintain your truck on level ground at 30 miles per hour once it is moving. But, it will take about 50 horsepower to get it started from a dead stop on an uphill grade.

Electric motors, which are often inductive, require more power to start than to maintain at operating speed -- especially if they are under a load when starting.

Power from a utility, even if it has a 30 amp circuit breaker protecting the circuit, can easily provide a surge or peak current that exceeds the circuit breaker rating for a sufficient number of cycles to get an induction motor moving without tripping the breaker. The main issue here is the utility's ability to provide this extra power surge without difficulty.

On the other hand a generator (or alternator) rated at 3,600 watts has very little reserve power available to get an electric motor like the one in your air conditioner compressor started. It can maintain it once it is running, but it "may" lack that kick needed to start it.

Now, if the generator were sufficiently larger and able to produce more power on demand it would be a different story.......