Travel Trailer electrical, - Inverter placement/hookup

[TomC71]

I have a 23' Terry Taurus. I'm almost never going to use it hooked to an AC power source, and want the AC plugs to work off an inverter I have.

Is there any reason I can't hook the inverter into the system somewhere to do so?

[ewarnerusa]

because it is simpler? The only additional thing powered would be the air conditioner. which as you said, you never run.

[TomC71]

ewarnerusa wrote:

TomC71 wrote:
...The fridge/microwave plug powers something in the converter unit that makes a humming noise. I'm guessing its the battery charger but am not really sure.

There are labels on the front of the converter, but they aren't correct at least on the AC side, not sure about the DC side although I know there's at least one extra fuse that has no label at all.

So I should be able to disconnect the wires from 3, 4 and 5 and run them right to my inverter. Then even if by some strange weirdness we were teleported somewhere else with shore power, or I wanted to run the generator and plug the trailer into it, it would only power up the battery charger, assuming it's the 'hum' I hear.

I think it would be weird that it has the converter tied to the same AC breaker as the microwave and fridge, the micro is a high draw item and usually on its own breaker. Fridge is probably 300 watt and your converter could be 500+ watts depending on make/model and how discharged your batteries are when you first plug in. That's a bunch of high draw items on one breaker. But if you hear the hum when only that breaker is on and the hum shuts off when you flip that breaker off, then your logic makes sense.

You mention you don't want to do any rewiring, but then talk about rewiring 3, 4, and 5 to the inverter. A few of us have recommended what seems simpler which is installing your inverter in a location convenient enough to plug your shore power cable right into it. Then shut off your breaker 6 that has the converter (and fridge & micro if your circuit assignments are correct, which would be a good practice anyway when running off inverter). Doing this will make all outlets energized.

Moving the ends of three wires a few inches isn't 'rewiring', it's simply changing hookups lol. By not rewiring I mean running new wires for things.

What would be the point of running AC through all the circuits besides the plugs we're going to use? It's all 37 year old stuff that I don't want to have to screw with where we don't have to.

[ewarnerusa]

TomC71 wrote:
...The fridge/microwave plug powers something in the converter unit that makes a humming noise. I'm guessing its the battery charger but am not really sure.

There are labels on the front of the converter, but they aren't correct at least on the AC side, not sure about the DC side although I know there's at least one extra fuse that has no label at all.

So I should be able to disconnect the wires from 3, 4 and 5 and run them right to my inverter. Then even if by some strange weirdness we were teleported somewhere else with shore power, or I wanted to run the generator and plug the trailer into it, it would only power up the battery charger, assuming it's the 'hum' I hear.

I think it would be weird that it has the converter tied to the same AC breaker as the microwave and fridge, the micro is a high draw item and usually on its own breaker. Fridge is probably 300 watt and your converter could be 500+ watts depending on make/model and how discharged your batteries are when you first plug in. That's a bunch of high draw items on one breaker. But if you hear the hum when only that breaker is on and the hum shuts off when you flip that breaker off, then your logic makes sense.

You mention you don't want to do any rewiring, but then talk about rewiring 3, 4, and 5 to the inverter. A few of us have recommended what seems simpler which is installing your inverter in a location convenient enough to plug your shore power cable right into it. Then shut off your breaker 6 that has the converter (and fridge & micro if your circuit assignments are correct, which would be a good practice anyway when running off inverter). Doing this will make all outlets energized.

[TomC71]

opnspaces wrote:
Almost all of my camping for the last 15 years has been off grid in the Southern California deserts. Take my suggestions for what they are. Just my opinions from many years of doing what you describe.

If you are just charging phones, tablets and a laptop a 300 watt inverter Is really all you need.

If you have or want a larger inverter to power all the AC outlets; I would suggest finding a place to put the inverter where you can just use a 120v adapter and plug your shore power cord into the inverter. BUT I speak from from experience here. Do not forget to flip off the breaker on your built in battery charger or you will wind with dead batteries pretty quickly. Don't forget to take the refrigerator off Auto as it will suck the batteries. If your water heater has an AC option make sure it is off as well (Been there done that, I'm apparently a slow learner).

Also be aware that the circuit breaker for the battery charger might also power other outlets in the trailer. In my trailer when I flip that breaker off I also lose my entertainment system (TV, DVD player etc) which is not really desirable.

While both systems above work, they have losses as you convert from 12 volt to 120 volt and back to 12 or 5 volt to charge the phones and such. What I found to be most efficient is to install a bunch of 5v outlets in the trailer. I now have one outlet by each bed for the kids and one on each side or my queen bed as well as one under the dinette table and one on the side of the kitchen cabinet. All told I have added six 12 volt outlets. This allows everybody to keep their electronics charged without going through the battery losses that come with inverting and converting. For items that cannot run on the 12v outlets I just have a small 300w inverter but I rarely ever use it.

Here's a few pictures of what I'm talking about. If you go this route make sure you get at least 2.1 amp ports. And that is 2.1 amp each port as many of them are 2.1 amp on one side and 1 amp on the other.

I also had to look for a while to find non-illuminated ports as I dislike the light from an LED in the trailer at night out in the desert and also don't want the vampiric power drain of even an LED.





Amazon link

At the moment I'm trying to avoid any actual rewiring jobs in the trailer. The old trailer has wires taped to the ceiling and walls to run DC power around and it looks horrible and is a pain in the ass.

The little bit of loss from converting back and forth is acceptable for now. When I do get around to running wires though, I do plan on installing some USB plugs like the ones you linked. But that's for another day.

I will use the ones from your link though for the same reason you mentioned. I've tried looking for non LED ones and can never find them lol. I may even take my solar charge controller apart one day to see if I can install a switch for the display and it's light because it annoys me, always shining in the night...


The hot water tank has no power going to it at all and the furnace runs off DC power.

[TomC71]

I think I've got everything electrical in the trailer identified now.

The AC panel has 6 breakers.

1 - Main
2 - A/C, which doesn't actually even have a receptacle installed
3 - Portable appliances, plug over kitchen counter
4 - Front two plugs over the couch and one near the kitchen counter on the driver's side
5 - Exterior, entrance, table, bedroom and bathroom plugs
6 - Fridge/Microwave plugs.

The fridge/microwave plug powers something in the converter unit that makes a humming noise. I'm guessing its the battery charger but am not really sure.

There are labels on the front of the converter, but they aren't correct at least on the AC side, not sure about the DC side although I know there's at least one extra fuse that has no label at all.

So I should be able to disconnect the wires from 3, 4 and 5 and run them right to my inverter. Then even if by some strange weirdness we were teleported somewhere else with shore power, or I wanted to run the generator and plug the trailer into it, it would only power up the battery charger, assuming it's the 'hum' I hear.

[Krusty]

Cptnvideo wrote:

Krusty wrote:
I added another 15-amp breaker to my breaker panel. I connected a 12-gauge cable to the breaker and ran this to my 2000-watt inverter. The inverter back feeds the panel and it will power up everything I want it to. Not the "correct" way to do it but it works fine and does everything I need it to.

I hope you remember to turn off that breaker before connecting to shore power.

Yup, sure do

[opnspaces]

Almost all of my camping for the last 15 years has been off grid in the Southern California deserts. Take my suggestions for what they are. Just my opinions from many years of doing what you describe.

If you are just charging phones, tablets and a laptop a 300 watt inverter Is really all you need.

If you have or want a larger inverter to power all the AC outlets; I would suggest finding a place to put the inverter where you can just use a 120v adapter and plug your shore power cord into the inverter. BUT I speak from from experience here. Do not forget to flip off the breaker on your built in battery charger or you will wind with dead batteries pretty quickly. Don't forget to take the refrigerator off Auto as it will suck the batteries. If your water heater has an AC option make sure it is off as well (Been there done that, I'm apparently a slow learner).

Also be aware that the circuit breaker for the battery charger might also power other outlets in the trailer. In my trailer when I flip that breaker off I also lose my entertainment system (TV, DVD player etc) which is not really desirable.

While both systems above work, they have losses as you convert from 12 volt to 120 volt and back to 12 or 5 volt to charge the phones and such. What I found to be most efficient is to install a bunch of 5v outlets in the trailer. I now have one outlet by each bed for the kids and one on each side or my queen bed as well as one under the dinette table and one on the side of the kitchen cabinet. All told I have added six 12 volt outlets. This allows everybody to keep their electronics charged without going through the battery losses that come with inverting and converting. For items that cannot run on the 12v outlets I just have a small 300w inverter but I rarely ever use it.

Here's a few pictures of what I'm talking about. If you go this route make sure you get at least 2.1 amp ports. And that is 2.1 amp each port as many of them are 2.1 amp on one side and 1 amp on the other.

I also had to look for a while to find non-illuminated ports as I dislike the light from an LED in the trailer at night out in the desert and also don't want the vampiric power drain of even an LED.





Amazon link

[3_tons]

TomC71 wrote:

3 tons wrote:
Recall the old sage advice regarding ‘assumptions’, and you should consider that this goes in both directions!! - Given such a limited but evolving description, are others to merely assume your specific scenario, or level of competence - Really??… Either way, you’re very welcome (lol!), and I’m sticking with the previous advice for the larger audience as follows,

“Rather than rely upon memory, you should plan on having an approved means of isolating the inverter from shore and genny power.”

3 tons

You already DID make assumptions, as did others. Now when I clarify why those assumptions are totally wrong and pointless, you whine?

Have you ever tried asking questions instead of making assumptions?

"Hey Tom, what are you planning on powering through the plugs?", "Do you ever plan on being hooked to shore power?", "Could you tell us more about your set up?"

Or you could, as you did, assume you know everything you need to and offer suggestions based on those incorrect assumptions.

Wow, you seem kinda touchy so I’ll now admittedly assume that your plan (as was stated…) is roughly equivalent to sticking a fork into an electrical socket, no doubt a short will occur (what I ‘kindly’ tried to warn you ‘and the larger audience’ of my friend!!) so in light of this, my updated advice would be wear rubber gloves and commit to memory NEVER start-up a generator and NEVER plug into shore power..In this case I would even disable the shore power cord…

Glad I could help others 🙂

3 tons

[TomC71]

I didn't come here for a flame war, so you people who like to do that will now just be blocked.

[2112]

All I can say is WOW!

I would tell you how I installed my two inverters but I assume you already know.

How long is this string?

[TomC71]

3 tons wrote:
Recall the old sage advice regarding ‘assumptions’, and you should consider that this goes in both directions!! - Given such a limited but evolving description, are others to merely assume your specific scenario, or level of competence - Really??… Either way, you’re very welcome (lol!), and I’m sticking with the previous advice for the larger audience as follows,

“Rather than rely upon memory, you should plan on having an approved means of isolating the inverter from shore and genny power.”

3 tons

You already DID make assumptions, as did others. Now when I clarify why those assumptions are totally wrong and pointless, you whine?

Have you ever tried asking questions instead of making assumptions?

"Hey Tom, what are you planning on powering through the plugs?", "Do you ever plan on being hooked to shore power?", "Could you tell us more about your set up?"

Or you could, as you did, assume you know everything you need to and offer suggestions based on those incorrect assumptions.

[3_tons]

TomC71 wrote:

3 tons wrote:

TomC71 wrote:
Is there any reason I can't just take the wire coming off the breaker for the plugs and it's negative of course, and hook them to my inverter and skip what it seems a lot of people have done?

As I said, I am just looking to power the plugs in the trailer.

I have to look to see if I have the wiring diagram for it and see if the plugs are isolated from everything else or part of another circuit.

First off, no doubt, just about anything that folks can think up has already been tried (with varying degrees of success and failure…)…The method you suggest (without a ATS) would create a electrical hazard if you forgot the inverter was ON and started the genny or plugged in to shore power, nor would it allow you to run the microwave since it is on its own dedicated circuit…Rules are just a consequence of mistakes - Rather than rely upon memory, you should plan on having an approved means of isolating the inverter from shore and genny power.

3 tons

This was the sort of thing I was referring to when I mentioned people making assumptions.

Huh?? I don’t get your unwarranted admonishment??….Recall the old sage advice regarding ‘assumptions’, and you should consider that this goes in both directions!! - Given such a limited but evolving description, are others to merely assume your specific scenario, or level of competence - Really??… Either way, you’re very welcome (lol!), and I’m sticking with the previous advice for the larger audience as follows,

“Rather than rely upon memory, you should plan on having an approved means of isolating the inverter from shore and genny power.”

3 tons

[Cptnvideo]

Krusty wrote:
I added another 15-amp breaker to my breaker panel. I connected a 12-gauge cable to the breaker and ran this to my 2000-watt inverter. The inverter back feeds the panel and it will power up everything I want it to. Not the "correct" way to do it but it works fine and does everything I need it to.

I hope you remember to turn off that breaker before connecting to shore power.

[Krusty]

I added another 15-amp breaker to my breaker panel. I connected a 12-gauge cable to the breaker and ran this to my 2000-watt inverter. The inverter back feeds the panel and it will power up everything I want it to. Not the "correct" way to do it but it works fine and does everything I need it to.

[TomC71]

3 tons wrote:

TomC71 wrote:
Is there any reason I can't just take the wire coming off the breaker for the plugs and it's negative of course, and hook them to my inverter and skip what it seems a lot of people have done?

As I said, I am just looking to power the plugs in the trailer.

I have to look to see if I have the wiring diagram for it and see if the plugs are isolated from everything else or part of another circuit.

First off, no doubt, just about anything that folks can think up has already been tried (with varying degrees of success and failure…)…The method you suggest (without a ATS) would create a electrical hazard if you forgot the inverter was ON and started the genny or plugged in to shore power, nor would it allow you to run the microwave since it is on its own dedicated circuit…Rules are just a consequence of mistakes - Rather than rely upon memory, you should plan on having an approved means of isolating the inverter from shore and genny power.

3 tons

This was the sort of thing I was referring to when I mentioned people making assumptions.

We've lived in a travel trailer since last year, 100% off grid. We do not use a microwave, don't use the furnace, A/C unit and don't have any high power draws at all. We power our lights, radio and charge our phones, tablet, laptop and internet hub. Our 'new' trailer, is the same year, just a slightly different configuration of trailer. It doesn't even have a roof top AC/furnace unit in it.

That was why I said I was looking for a way to power the AC plugs (which is not the A/C plug...)

I want the AC plugs working so we can plug our phone/tablet/laptop in to them to charge them.

As for the multiple comments about 'forgetting it' when hooking it up to shore power, either with a generator or shore line, we have literally never, not even once, hooked either to our trailer. The very, very rare occurrence (twice last winter), when we used our generator, it was to charge the batteries up when we had a few too many cloudy days in a row.