Yamaha 1000w inverter for maintaining batteries

[Winnipeg]

Hi,

Sorry if this is a repeat question (I searched and didn't find).

I have a MH with 4 @ 6v batteries, 2000w inverter, and residential fridge.

I would like to maintain the batteries (while remote camping) with my 1000w Yamaha gas powered inverter/generator.

If I connect the Yamaha to 110v, it tries to power the fridge, charge the batteries, and do many other things. Poor Yamaha quickly overloads and trips out.

If I connect the Yamaha directly to the batteries with 12v cables, it doesn't appear to do anything. Engine shows no sign of doing work. The Yamaha should work as a 12v charger, but that does not appear to be true.

I considered getting a "good" external battery charger and using the Yamaha to power it to charge the batteries, but it seems silly to make 12v dc, change it to 110v, then change it back to 12v.

Am I missing something, or do these little inverters not work as 12v chargers?

Paul

[Winnipeg]

Hi, a quick update from the OP.

First, thanks again for many helpful suggestions, and a few that seemed a little silly.

My goal is to keep things running through the night with no shore power. CPAP and residential fridge need to run all night without killing the batteries.

I don't intend to buy a larger gen, run the MH engine at night, or swap out my fridge for a propane unit.

Fortunately, I discovered that my inverter/converter/charger (on the MH) has a dip switch that lets you select charger amps at 55 amps (normal), or 15 amps. The little Yami will power the MH when the dip switch is set to 15 amps. So, I can power the fridge & CPAP most of the night and also put a small charge into the batteries. PERFECT!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Only a thick mat calcium neg plate telecom battery demands a definite ampere charge limit. The rest are "phugger in and hang on". I've seen 27 Odysseys accept 60+ amperes. My 31 Lifeline gobbles 109 amperes saturated acceptance @ 14.4

Is this thread about coverters or battery chargers and what to what musical chairs generators and charge devices...?

Anything but a power corrected charger for the small generator is a waste of time and money.

When thinking charge devices think new Ford pickups with a 270 amp alternator and the vehicle batteries. Does it kill the batteries? No.

A Meanwell RSP 320-15 set on 14.4 volts is the way to go with a little Yamaha. It is chugging away as hard as it can and what else could you ask for? You aren't going to find another more efficient way to use the 1000 watts, period.

[BFL13]

NRALIFR wrote:

BFL13 wrote:

Your 45 amper, if doing 40-42 is also over the 35 spec, but that might not be too critical, don't know. (Mex sometimes pooh-poohs those limits)

I think that particular spec has changed since I bought the battery three years ago. I’m almost positive that 40 amps was the max. I have a spec sheet for this battery but unfortunately it’s at home and I’m not.

At any rate, my thought at the time (which may be wrong) was that while I could hurt the battery with over voltage, I don’t think I can make it take more amps than it can handle.

:):)

Have to ask Mex or somebody about that, but AFAIK it is about the sealed AGM getting too hot. Can lead to a "venting" episode, which is not pretty.

Not sure if over amping is the same threat as over voltage for over heating. Over amping might just mean going too fast for the desulphation of recharging. Need some help with that! Anybody?

[NRALIFR]

BFL13 wrote:

Your 45 amper, if doing 40-42 is also over the 35 spec, but that might not be too critical, don't know. (Mex sometimes pooh-poohs those limits)

I think that particular spec has changed since I bought the battery three years ago. I’m almost positive that 40 amps was the max. I have a spec sheet for this battery but unfortunately it’s at home and I’m not.

At any rate, my thought at the time (which may be wrong) was that while I could hurt the battery with over voltage, I don’t think I can make it take more amps than it can handle.

:):)

[BFL13]

"Charging amps 8-35 amps at 14.4 to 14.9


* Warning: Do not use a charger with smaller amperage than the recommended Charging Current shown above.
Maintainers should ONLY be used to maintain a fully charged battery but NEVER as a charger"

So that one is ok at 14.4 but beware of using only solar to recharge it, since solar will often be less than 8 amps.

(EDIT--some AGMs have a minimum amps like that, but not all. I am lucky that mine do not have a minimum amps spec, so it just takes longer if using fewer amps. )

Your 45 amper, if doing 40-42 is also over the 35 spec, but that might not be too critical, don't know. (Mex sometimes pooh-poohs those limits)

My 100AH AGM is limited to 27a for recharging, so my 55 amp converter is too much. I beat that by getting a second 100AH so I can do both with the 55. That is one more amp than the spec 54, but so far so good! 🙂

[NRALIFR]

I have a single VMAX SLR-125 battery. If I remember correctly when I bought it, the price was more attractive on the SLR (solar) group 31 battery vs the MR (marine/rv) group 31 battery. The SLR group 31 also weighs more and has a few more amp-hours than the MR battery.

I’d have trouble shoehorning the PD9280 in to the available space. That was one huge advantage of the PD4645. It replaced the power section of the Magnatek perfectly. I’d have to relocate the converter-charger if I wanted to use one that was any larger in any dimension.

:):)

[BFL13]

time2roll wrote:

NRALIFR wrote:
I wish it could be adjusted even higher because the VMAX AGM battery I have can take up to 15v.

PD9280-14.8

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD-9280C-148-80-Amp-RV-Converter

An 80 amper might be a bit much for "the VMAX AGM battery"? that 80 amper also needs a 20 amp receptacle (with its 12 wire) to plug into.

What is the house battery bank size in AH? A link to the charging specs for that AGM battery?

[time2roll]

NRALIFR wrote:
I wish it could be adjusted even higher because the VMAX AGM battery I have can take up to 15v.

PD9280-14.8

http://www.bestconverter.com/PD-9280C-148-80-Amp-RV-Converter

[BFL13]

The voltage seen on the Tri is battery voltage, not the PD's voltage of 14.4. You will see 14.4 batt once the batts are full.

With the AGMs, once the correct charging voltage has been set, the Trimetric is mainly to see the amps fall to under 0.5a for each 100AH worth of battery bank. Once down to that, now you can declare the AGMs are full and reset the Tri AH counter to zero. The charge Wizard does let you keep it at 14.4 till then. Once they are full, you can also use the CW to put the voltage to 13.6 Float.

That is what the PD is best at, for its CW. Just too bad about the not-so-constant amps in Bulk.

Forget the bogus Tri advice about what "full" means, even if you have Flooded batts. IMO that will get you to just under true full, which is undercharging.

My AH counter gets over into the plus numbers by the time the batts are truly full, since the default charging efficiency is just approximate. ( I have not tried to adjust that default number as Tri allows for--another stick-house thing that is not so good in an RV)

[NRALIFR]

It made it.



:):)

[NRALIFR]

I have occasionally seen 14.4 out of mine, but I’d sure like to see it hit that more often and for a longer amount of time. I’m only happy with the PD to the extent that until it goes casters up I’m not replacing it. It’s better than the Magnetek it replaced.

I’m out in my camper now and the battery is at 94% and I had to force into boost mode anyway. It may make it to 14.4 and it may not. I wish it could be adjusted even higher because the VMAX AGM battery I have can take up to 15v.



:):)

[BFL13]

time2roll wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
Little math exercise:

ASSume 85% efficiency for Iota and PD, and Iota at its 14.8 while PD at 14.4, each at 40 amps output. PD PF 0.7, ASSume same for Iota.

14.8 x 40 = 592w out, so at 85% = 696w in, so at 0.7 = 995VA

14.4 x 40 = 576w out, so at 85% = 678w in, so at 0.7 = 968VA

I read plenty of posts where PD will NOT produce rated amps at 14.4 volts. About 10% less.

That's why the example uses 40 when he has a 45 PD. Also I can't find an Iota 40. They do have a 30 and a 45. If you meant an Iota 45 on the Honda 1000, that puts it even more above the 900VA rating.

14.8 x 45 = 666w out, so at 85% = 783w in, so at 0.7 = 1119VA

There were a couple of posts where guys got their PDs to do rated amps, but they had exceptional set-ups for wiring and good 120v inputs. Salvo used to say PDs have some sort of design fault where they can't do their rated amps at constant amps for the whole Bulk stage like other chargers can. Others have confirmed that with theirs. People with PDs sure like them though.

[time2roll]

BFL13 wrote:
Little math exercise:

ASSume 85% efficiency for Iota and PD, and Iota at its 14.8 while PD at 14.4, each at 40 amps output. PD PF 0.7, ASSume same for Iota.

14.8 x 40 = 592w out, so at 85% = 696w in, so at 0.7 = 995VA

14.4 x 40 = 576w out, so at 85% = 678w in, so at 0.7 = 968VA

I read plenty of posts where PD will NOT produce rated amps at 14.4 volts. About 10% less.

[BFL13]

NRALIFR wrote:
I do have a Trimetric and a Kill-A-Watt, and the highest boost amperage I’ve seen is about 40-42. I’ve also seen the Yamaha sustain 950 watts output at low elevations.

For me, shoulder injuries make the extra weight and size of a 2000 watt generator a big deal. I like my 1000.

:):)

Good info. I suspect these generators can do a little more than their advertised ratings. My Honda 3000 can run more than its rated 2800 too.

Can't help with alternator charging issues with a 2016 Ford. I bet there is a youtube or three on all that. Seems to be one for almost anything!