Finally! RAM gets a competitive transmission behind the Big C!

[Grit_dog]

Welp, it’s finally happenin. 
The 8 speed Powerline slush boxes are rolling off the assembly line and gettin stocked up to go in the ‘25 model Ram diesels!!!

[4x4ord]

The ZF is an amazing transmission which is something to get a little excited about but really unless the Cummins gets a big boost in HP the two more gears isn't going to make it any faster up the hill. Nor is 8 speeds vs 6 going to get the Ram any better fuel economy unless a much higher speed rear end is coupled to that ZF..... a 3.26 final drive would be nice.

[Grit_dog]

Not sure what you’re getting at. Assuming apples to apples final drives and similar trans efficiency across brands, yup only HP will reasonably make it “faster”. 
But it does the same thing and same reason the other brands went to 10 speeds (really the same concept for all vehicles). 
Ability to run higher final drive ratio, like F and GM do, due to ultra low first gear and ability to have closer gear splits. 
on the top end, you’re not sacrificing a deep OD ratio for the sake of good gear splits. 
this is not earth shattering info or news, except for Ram who was so late to the table. Not to mention passing off the 68RE to consumers for at least 10 years longer than they should have. And resting on the big C name to sell a million trucks with sub par transmissions.  

[4x4ord]

I agree that this ZF is great for Ram guys. What I am getting at with my previous post is that the additional gears alone don’t provide much in the way of fuel economy or speed up a hill. A 3.14 : 1 final drive behind this ZF would provide the same oomph to get a load moving as 4.10 gears behind the Aisin. So, Ram guys need to realize that to get a fuel efficiency benefit they need to select a much higher final drive to go along with the 8 speed. 

As far as speed up the hill goes,  the HO Cummins won’t benefit from more gears the way an engine like the Duramax does because he HO Cummins  makes very similar HP at 2000 rpm as it does at 2800 rpm. Unless Cummins bumps its power rating up, a 4.10 equipped 6 speed behind the Cummins is going to pull a hill very similar to a 4.10 equipped 8 speed up that same hill. 

[blt2ski]

At strictly freeway type speeds grades etc, IE under 3-5%grades, 50+mph, I agree with you prognoses.

Where the extra two gears will help, is literal starting omph, since it will have the potential for an overall lower 1st gear ratio. Having closer splits below, allows on to go faster on local grades. Example, grantedy 6.5td was not a powerhouse. When I went from direct to 3rd at 1.6-1, I 50mph shifting down on a grade, while I could go 45, I was close to redline. I ended up at 35 mph at 2600 rpm. The nv5600 gear below direct was raised to a 1.3. this would have allowed me to pull that same grade in the low to mid 40's at 2500 rpm. Gaining me speed!

My 7sp in my IHC allows the same gains. Gear splits are 700 rpm drops vs upward of 1400 for the Allison 4 sp I could have put in, 1200 for the spicer 5 sp, 900 for the fuller 6sp. All having 4.33 axle gears, direct drives, 1st went as tall as 5.5-1 to my spicer at 10-1.

The overall driving is better. I've noticed this going from my C2500 with a 255/355 350 with a 4l80e, 4.10 gears, vs my 1500 having a 6 sp, 3.42 gears with a 285/305 4.3 V6. It pulls the same trailers just as easy or easier than the previous truck at lower speeds, up grades in the 5-20+% realm. This is where the 8 SP will help the ram owners.

Marty

[FishOnOne]

Calling on cummins12V98  😁

Now cummins needs to reinforce their latest gen blocks when they went to a weight reduction in '19 and fix their lifter issues and they may have something

[Grit_dog]

They better hold up!  Lol

No reason to doubt them given ZFs stellar reputation this far with the lighter duty 8HPs that have no been the benchmark slushbox for 10 years running. 
And they’ve been road testing this thing, starting back in 2017/18 in Ram pickups. Goin on 6-7 years of product development. 
Well more like 3-4 of development and 2-3 of negotiations.  It was ready to roll when the ‘Rona hit which put a damper on it. 

[blt2ski]

Where is 12V saying he dont need a steekin 8 sp tranny! 

Marty

[Grit_dog]

Haha figured his ears would start burnin and he’d show up. Same with Fish to say how bad Dodge is because the plastic dash in his 20 year old abused sun baked farm truck didn’t hold up, so Ram sucks….hahaha. 

But mostly it was an actual post of a long awaited addition to Rams and consideration to not be they sucker that buys the last of the schitty transmissions just to see the new one come out in 6 months!

[FishOnOne]

LOL...  That old red Dodge is still running.  Gave it to an employee....  I'm sure the dash lost a few more pounds since that last posting if you want to still call it a dash...  LOL

[blt2ski]

If it broadens the 1-8 gears a bit, and makes the gear shifts closer together like the Ford/GM 8 and 10 speeds did. It will be a great addition for that brand.

The 6 SPD is really no different geared than the Allison 3000 and 2400?!?iirc. 3.54 first to a .65 DOD. If the extra two gears gets them into the 4.10-4.5 first get ratio, that will net them way more take off power than is already available to them. Then not slowing down as much in the next lower gear in the 5-8 range.

[Grit_dog]

4.89 1st gear. 
0.64 8th gear. 
bout perfect for a diesel. 
The 10 speeds are nice and even nicer in a gasser imo because there’s so much more rpm range to play with. 
But 8-9 fwd speeds is imo about perfect and of diminishing returns from there on. 
Take the newer GM and Ford 10speeds. Both the different HD ones and the same 1/2 ton ones. 
9th or 10th gear, one or the other, is a waste. There’s only 150–200rpms difference. 

[StirCrazy]

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@Grit_dog wrote:

9th or 10th gear, one or the other, is a waste. There’s only 150–200rpms difference.

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for a diesel thats a big difference, but ya a gasser not much but might be just enough that when empty you can grab one more gear and get 0.2mpg better milage haha

[blt2ski]

Even my GM 1500 only drops 200 R's between OD and DOD. Maybe 300 tween 4th at 1.05 and OD at .85. Now 3rd at 1.6 or there about us closer to 600.

At 60 I'm around 1600 in DOD, 1800+ in OD. 2400 in 4th. A bit over 3000 in 3rd

Not bad rpm split IMHO. Be it a gas or diesel. That's 3.42's in pumpkins, 32.5" diam tires.

Not sure what grits issue is.

Marty

[Grit_dog]

No issue.  Not sure what ya mean. 
JMO that the 10th gear in the current crop of 10 speeds is not very useful. 
8-9 speeds in a light duty vehicle be it car or truck is about the pinnacle of usefulness for adding more gears IMO. 

Pretty well confirmed now that the Powerline will hit the streets in 2025 model Rams. Wonder what that’ll doo to 2024 sales?  Hard to imagine anyone with any knowledge buying a new $60-100k truck with a 20 year old transmission when they can have a much better option in just a few short months.