10,000 lb Vehicle weight and the law

[brholt]

In looking through the Washington and municipal laws regarding whether or not truck campers are RV's I noticed the laws are rife with definitions involving 10,000 lb vehicle weight (with an occasional 12,000 lob or 1 ton reference). Below it, for the purposes of the law, you are just a "car". Above it you are a "big" truck with many more restrictions. This goes to chaining up requirements, car pool lanes, parking etc.

It sure helps me understand the 10,000 lb GVWR option that Ford has on its pickups. Just change a sticker and all is well. It does seem rather outdated though with so many of today's pickups having higher limits. I also suspect it is one of the more commonly ignored aspects of the law. I've gone by lots of state troopers in the car pool lane in my DRW pickup with the camper and they haven't payed any attention.

By the way, some of the laws refer to 10,000 lb vehicle weight so I guess officially you can be in trouble if you weigh more than 10,000 lb independent of what your GVWR is.

I suppose this sort of thing is common in other states and just as commonly ignored?

[_DJ_1]

ah64id wrote:

~DJ~ wrote:
We also license our trucks as passenger cars. 🙂

Be careful with that one. The passenger car plate is only good to 8,000lbs and ISP has started issuing tickets for it. There are 2 other plates 8,001-16,000 and 16,001-26,000. Trailers that have an RV sticker are excempt from your weigh, but if the TV is over 8,000 with the trailer unhooked and you have passenger car plates. I register for 26K so I don't have to mess with it. I am over 8K nearly all of the time, even with an empty bed.

The real BS part about it is that the DMV doesn't advertise the different plates, nor do they ask you about what weight you want when you register.

If an Idaho plate expires in any month but December it's for sure a passenger car plate, if it expires in December it could be a passenger car or 8,000+ non-commercial.

It is a confusing law for sure. My truck is under 8000 empty and RV's are exempt but the 8000 also applies to GCVWR. So when I hook up my enclosed trailer with quads I technically need a truck plate.

I ran into a State Trooper yesterday (not literally!!) and had a chat with him. He said what they are really looking for are these construction guys with the big enclosed trailers running around with car plates.

I also stopped by DMV to see the cost of a truck plate. It was virtually the same!!! So I don't understand what the heck is going on with that!!

[Redsky]

Bottom line there is no legal limit on the weight that can be put in a passenger use vehicle of any type or the amount of weight that can be towed. I care about making it to my destination and back home safely. If I am under the GVWR and have tire fail and the truck flips and my wife and I are seriously injured or die what really mattered?

If I am towing a trailer that is within the tow rating of my truck and its hitch but cannot stop in time and hit another vehicle and we are seriously injured or killed how does the rating help? If anything it gives people a false sense of security.

It is interesting how a topic like this brings out the wanta be a cop mentality of so many people who jump on their soap boxes and start preaching. Not providing useful information for anyone's benefit on the forum, but who cares about that.

[Moose10]

Reddog1 wrote:
burningman, well stated. The sky is not falling, all trucks are the best in their class.

When I think of the vehicles that are identified as trucks, I just shake my head. I have a Suzuki Samurai, which is sold as a truck.

Right and the Honda Ridgeline won Motor Trends "Truck of the Year" a while back, hahaha....what a joke:h

[bobndot]

RV and passenger autos usually escape , however commercially operated may be a different situation .
It might not the common thing to see in some areas but it does occur. It will depend on each particular accident investigation and who is conducting it . Some departments conduct real investigations while others don't.
The reason most people do not see a box on a state accident report that shows overloaded vehicle is because a separate sub-division does that part of the extended investigation and most people and media are not exposed to those particular forms ,they are sealed for court purposes.



Not only in NY but the Motor-Carrier Division of major P.D.'s specialize in enforcing commercial vehicle weights. They receive special training in which forensic evidence in gathered at fatal accident scenes. That is why interstates are shut down for hours while MCD and Homicide Divisions take crime scene photographs , measurements and calculate weights skid marks and distances .
Commercial drivers have been (fact: have been) arrested for felonies involving overloaded trucks and buses when involved in a fatality.
The arrest may not come at the scene but does in fact occur a day or a week afterwards and that might be the reason some people don't hear about it .

[Reddog1]

burningman, well stated. The sky is not falling, all trucks are the best in their class.

When I think of the vehicles that are identified as trucks, I just shake my head. I have a Suzuki Samurai, which is sold as a truck.

[burningman]

One more nit-picking point: laws about what trucks can do what are based on licensed GVW, not manufacturer's ratings. Sometimes you see medium-duty trucks that are good for 32,000 licensed at 26,000 to avoid needing a CDL to drive them.

I do agree, it would take a very unlikely set of circumstances for any of this to matter on a personal pickup truck. This board is chock full of talk about GVWR and throwing out the bed sheets and frying pans to stay right on the approved number. In reality, if you have a nice stout 3/4 or one-ton that is handling your camper well and you aren't overloading your rear tires you're fine.
Not overloading the rear tires on an SRW with a big camper is what I'd call the main spec to worry about.

[campingken]

In many state when a multiple fatality accident happens a MAIT (Major Accident Investigation Team) will re-assemble the at fault vehicle and check all safety components. If it was overweight to the point that this contributed to, or was the primary cause, of the accident then the driver could face criminal as well as civil penalties.

[AH64ID]

burningman wrote:


Also, in general the DOT is unconcerned about manufacturer's weight ratings. They go by their own formula of tire size, number of axles, and wheelbase. Those are the things that determine LEGAL weight capacity. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the law anywhere about what rating the manufacturer places on a truck. That's of no more consequence than a manufacturer's speed rating vs. the state's speed limit. THEY decide the limit based on their own criteria, in both cases.

I don't know why people find this so hard to beleive.

Use the mfgr weigh ratings as a guide. On a 1/2 they are probably a bit more black and white than a 3/4 or 1 ton, simply based on application and part interchangeability.

Case in point, my 2005 SRW 3500 has the same frame as my brothers 06 2500 Hemi, my Dad's 06 2500 Cummins, and my friends 07 6.7 Cummins DRW 3500... All 4 trucks have different a GVWR. All 4 run the same brakes, same front axle and same rear axle on the diesels (DRW vs SRW is same axle with slight config differences, rated the same by AAM). The only GVW that is might be an actual limit is the one found on the DRW of 12,200. Anything below that is a mfgr placard that is NOT based on structural ability. The rear axle has 4 "limits" that I can find. 2500 6,010lbs, 3500 SRW 6,200lbs, 3500 DRW 9,350lbs, AAM 10,912lbs. Which one do you think matters the most?

Having a 9,900lb GVWR is nice for the legal side of being over 10,000 GVWR.. but that in no way stops me from loading my truck up heavier. I personally keep it to the 12,200 limit, the highest from Dodge. I know many people will bust that 12,200 limit but that's the max I will run. I have yet to break 11,300, but will be close to 12,000 on my next camping trip.

~DJ~ wrote:
We also license our trucks as passenger cars. 🙂

Be careful with that one. The passenger car plate is only good to 8,000lbs and ISP has started issuing tickets for it. There are 2 other plates 8,001-16,000 and 16,001-26,000. Trailers that have an RV sticker are excempt from your weigh, but if the TV is over 8,000 with the trailer unhooked and you have passenger car plates. I register for 26K so I don't have to mess with it. I am over 8K nearly all of the time, even with an empty bed.

The real BS part about it is that the DMV doesn't advertise the different plates, nor do they ask you about what weight you want when you register.

If an Idaho plate expires in any month but December it's for sure a passenger car plate, if it expires in December it could be a passenger car or 8,000+ non-commercial.

[_DJ_1]

burningman wrote:
Well I have a CDL and used to be a tow truck driver. Years ago in Bellevue, WA, a loaded dump truck coming down a steep hill in a residential neighborhood lost it's brakes and crashed into a house. The investigators ordered, in their words, "every spoonful of dirt" to be loaded back onto the truck so they could check if it was over. There were indeed tickets and lawsuits.
That street now has weight restriction signs.
B
I know that isn't really what this thread is about but the question was asked about when did anything like that ever happen.

The law is slowly catching up to the times, in WA all trucks over 10,000 pounds used to have to stop at the scales, but in recent years it's been upped to only include trucks over 16,000.

Also, in general the DOT is unconcerned about manufacturer's weight ratings. They go by their own formula of tire size, number of axles, and wheelbase. Those are the things that determine LEGAL weight capacity. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the law anywhere about what rating the manufacturer places on a truck. That's of no more consequence than a manufacturer's speed rating vs. the state's speed limit. THEY decide the limit based on their own criteria, in both cases.

After 28 years in law enforcement I can tell dozens of stories about weighing for overweight, checking brakes, etc in accidents. BUT, they were all COMMERCIAL vehicles. I never had or heard of an RV accident being checked for overweight. And all Idaho cares about as far as weights is 12000 lbs per single axle. We also license our trucks as passenger cars. 🙂

[Reddog1]

burningman wrote:
... Also, in general the DOT is unconcerned about manufacturer's weight ratings. They go by their own formula of tire size, number of axles, and wheelbase. Those are the things that determine LEGAL weight capacity. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the law anywhere about what rating the manufacturer places on a truck. That's of no more consequence than a manufacturer's speed rating vs. the state's speed limit. THEY decide the limit based on their own criteria, in both cases.

I have seen this posted several times, and believe it to be true in all states. Canada may be different.

[burningman]

Well I have a CDL and used to be a tow truck driver. Years ago in Bellevue, WA, a loaded dump truck coming down a steep hill in a residential neighborhood lost it's brakes and crashed into a house. The investigators ordered, in their words, "every spoonful of dirt" to be loaded back onto the truck so they could check if it was over. There were indeed tickets and lawsuits.
That street now has weight restriction signs.
B
I know that isn't really what this thread is about but the question was asked about when did anything like that ever happen.

The law is slowly catching up to the times, in WA all trucks over 10,000 pounds used to have to stop at the scales, but in recent years it's been upped to only include trucks over 16,000.

Also, in general the DOT is unconcerned about manufacturer's weight ratings. They go by their own formula of tire size, number of axles, and wheelbase. Those are the things that determine LEGAL weight capacity. I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the law anywhere about what rating the manufacturer places on a truck. That's of no more consequence than a manufacturer's speed rating vs. the state's speed limit. THEY decide the limit based on their own criteria, in both cases.

[Reddog1]

Jim Cindy wrote:
Somebody, anybody, please just once post the who, what, where, when somebody got arrested or sued over their actual weight versus the sticker. Don't mean some trucker hauling to many postholes.
OK now another cup.

I agree, and have ask for the same evidence for several years. I doubt we will ever see it.

[path1]

.

[msgtord]

billtex wrote:

wintersun wrote:

romore wrote:
Until you do get stopped or involved in a wreck. The insurer's lawyers will be all over it like white on rice.

This is a ridiculous myth. Commercial trucks run over their rated weight all the time and that is why there are weigh stations to try to catch them and minimize the damage they do to the roads. It is a matter of road damage and not safety that motivates the states to check truck trailer weights at the scales.

Has anyone seen on an accident form a place to indicate the GVWR and actual weight of the truck? Would the tow truck haul the truck and its load to a weigh scale to have it checked before going to the repair shop or wrecking yard? Please use your head for a moment.

I doubt anyone with a CDL would jeoperdize their livelyhood by driving overweight...the risk is too great.

Your joking right? Go to you nearest Port of Entry and ask how many tickets the folks issue for overweight rigs.