10% TW to 13% TW...did not seem to make any difference

[cruz-in]

After increasing our TW to 13%, to help with how our TT Toy Hauler towed over the rough pavement of I-10, we noticed no improvement..

I measure my TW each time prior to hooking up (...I am a bit anal about it) and was at 10% at the start of our trip. The ride on I-10 really stunk and was uncomfortable in the TV. After posting here, folks reccomended increasing TW.

So I increased the TW to 13% and the ride still stunk....as best DW and I could tell there was no difference....if anything it was worse at 13%.

Now I do tow with a Hensley and Hensley said they did not expect me to see an iprovement in ride quality due to increasing TW. They said the Hensley handles the lower TWs just fine....at least in my case, it looks like they were correct...

[RinconVTR]

93Cobra2771 wrote:


I'm sure one of the engineering types in here could give us the percentage of error on measuring at tongue vs at the jack.

Guess now I'm the one nitpicking. LOL

I am, and after running quick estimates, I need to post a correction!!!

The weight at the jack will always be a little MORE...yes MORE than the hitch/coupler.

And we're talking differences of only (and roughly) 40-70lbs for trailers around 10k lbs. Give or take...there are so many variables.

If you have a scale, its good to know the difference between the jack and hitch, cause then you only need to check at the jack thereafter.

[93Cobra2771]

A few posts above, from the OP

"As far as trailer weight, the trailer was weighed once all ready to go...typically travel the same each time..,,,.so I assume it is still in the neighborhood of that original measurement (this was just done last fall)."

As far as most problem being attributed to TW, I'd expand on that and say "improper WDH setup" which should include tongue weight. Even then, I'm not fond of putting a blanket statement out there saying such a thing. There are lots of factors that cause cause a myriad of problems/symptoms.

I'm sure one of the engineering types in here could give us the percentage of error on measuring at tongue vs at the jack. Assuming the trailer is perfectly level, does it make a difference? You still have four tires and the jack or coupler supporting the weight. Not being a smarty here, as I honestly want to know.

In my mind, if we were to move the jack theoretically closer to the TT wheels, lets say right in front of them, then would it remove some of the weight off the rear wheels due to the change in the center of gravity? Or would those wheels still support the same amount and the jack support the same amount?

I do know that trailer being off level can make a significant difference in weight on the wheels vs on the tongue. I've personally witnessed that on the scales.

Guess now I'm the one nitpicking. LOL

[RCMAN46]

93Cobra2771 wrote:
HA considers the tongue weight it can contain as 1400# on the TT itself. Their literature doesn't say "up to 1400# tongue weight minus the weight of the HA itself". In fact, now that I think about it, I don't recall any hitch manufacturers stating "XXXX tongue weight minus the weight of the hitch".

Your TV cares less whether it it is tongue weight from the TT, or hitch weight from the HA. It is considered weight for all intents and purposes.

[soapbox]Come on, guys, must we nit pic every single post on rv.net to death? This is why people come here and post once, then never post again. Or update their original posts. I'm actually surprised the OP came back, as he has been quite beat to death on his last couple of posts. He is trying to learn, and is doing quite well, IMO. [/soapbox]

To the OP - as others have said, you can't adjust a hitch to make up for a crappy road. Adjusting speed is about all you can do. Sometimes an oscillation effect occurs due to wheelbase and expansion joints. New shocks may slow down those oscillations, then again they may make it worse. Adjusting speed is the easiest way to control them, IMO.

YMMV

Some of us are not nit picking.

Most trailer towing problems are due to insufficient tongue weight.

Several of us have asked how the tongue weight percentage was determined.

That requires a gross weight of the trailer and the tongue weight.

So far we have not got a gross weight of the trailer and the tongue weight given is probably not accurate. But with the way the OP measured it he probably measuring a weight that is greater than actual.

[93Cobra2771]

HA considers the tongue weight it can contain as 1400# on the TT itself. Their literature doesn't say "up to 1400# tongue weight minus the weight of the HA itself". In fact, now that I think about it, I don't recall any hitch manufacturers stating "XXXX tongue weight minus the weight of the hitch".

Your TV cares less whether it it is tongue weight from the TT, or hitch weight from the HA. It is considered weight for all intents and purposes.

[soapbox]Come on, guys, must we nit pic every single post on rv.net to death? This is why people come here and post once, then never post again. Or update their original posts. I'm actually surprised the OP came back, as he has been quite beat to death on his last couple of posts. He is trying to learn, and is doing quite well, IMO. [/soapbox]

To the OP - as others have said, you can't adjust a hitch to make up for a crappy road. Adjusting speed is about all you can do. Sometimes an oscillation effect occurs due to wheelbase and expansion joints. New shocks may slow down those oscillations, then again they may make it worse. Adjusting speed is the easiest way to control them, IMO.

YMMV

[cruz-in]

Typically slightly less than 1400 total (inclusive of hensley) ( for 10% to 11% TW)....although to see if it improved the ride I filled to 1400 plus hensley (for about 13% TW) and saw no ride improvement...

[AH64ID]

Are you filling to 1400 or 1400+ Hensley?

[cruz-in]

AH64ID wrote:
So, how do you weight the trailer each trip?

Oh heavens trailer is not weighed every ttime...that would be a pretty onerous task....doubt anyone does that...thought I was pretty anal verifying TW each time...

As far as trailer weight, the trailer was weighed once all ready to go...typically travel the same each time..,,,.so I assume it is still in the neighborhood of that original measurement (this was just done last fall).

This trailer has 175 gallon fresh water tanks and they are a good bit forward of the axles. If I traveled with them full, the TW would go thru the roof and certainly exceed the hensley caapacity. Basically the amount of fresh water I can carry is limited by the TW the Hensley can handle. So I hook up the hose and fill to appropiate TW is reached....making sure I do not exceed the 1400 the hensley can handle


As far as mine, Gray 2 can also have a significant affect on TW. So the amount of fresh wateer I carry is a function of what is also in Gray 2. So I measure each time...Gray 1 and Black are on top of the axles so they affect TW very little.

[AH64ID]

So, how do you weight the trailer each trip?

[cruz-in]

RinconVTR wrote:
A number of RED LIGHTS have been ID'd!

1. The Hensley and Propride weight distribution is absolutely no different than all the other common systems (weight distribution is not what is patented within these designs) and all of the hitch's weight must be included as tongue weight. Even the stinger!

If you currently weigh around 1500lbs anywhere up front (jack/coupler...whatever) you're already over the Hensley TW spec without adding anything else.

2. Weighing the trailer at the jack vs the coupler...you are losing a good foot of moment (lever) arm acting on the coupler thus likely not getting the full & accurate TW. Take the tongue weight at the coupler!

I know eTrailer shows pics of the TW taken from the jack, but you are on the edge and need a very accurate weight to know where you're at.


Now all that said, may or may not be part of your ride issue. You wont know until you change the balance of your trailer.

What is clear, is that you NEED to change the balance, if for no other reason than to get in spec of the Hensley. You're asking for head failure or at least premature bushing wear if you continue as is.

Humm....I have extensively discussed this with Hensley prior to buying the hitch....as I expected my TW without the hensley to be someone where between 1200 and 1400 pounds... and was told very specifically the 1400/14000 rating applies to the trailer prior to hensley install...but I will double check with them tomorrow and report back here...

when you think about it, this makes sense, the average purchaser does not know the weight of the weight distribution hitch stuff they are purchasing to put on the trailer, they only know the TW of the trailer and are buying accourdingly...derating the capacity for the hitch components just does not make sense....a hitch of certain capacity is ment to be installed on a trailer of a specified TW and weight, not a trailer of a certain TW minius weight of hitch components.

For instance in my case, Hensley asked me what my TW was. I responded between 1200 and 1400 pounds. They answered, go with the 1400 boars to cover the higher end.

[AH64ID]

cruz-in wrote:
Here is how I meaure tongue weight.

Using a Sherline tongue weight scale under the tongue jack, I adjust the trailer to the towing stance (which in may case is just slightly nose down) and take the reading.

I understand that, given the attach point to the vehicle is about 18 inches in front of the Tongue Jack, this TW measurement is not exact, but it should be rather close..

If you can adjust your hitch to make the trailer level it will tow better and lower tongue weight.

The 18" from the hitch isn't such a big deal since the Hensely does WD.

There is going to be VERY VERY little difference in weight between the jack and the coupler, meaning the jack will be accurate enough. It's also much easier to get it at the jack than coupler.

If you drive by a scale you can get the best reading on your tongue weight. Park the TV on the scale, but the TH off of the scale. Park so that the tongue jack will not land on the scale. Note GVW then disconnect the WD and note the weight. Then jack the trailer off of the truck and note the weight. The difference between 2 and 3 is your tongue weight, as you can see it will include all permanently attached parts on the trailer.

[RinconVTR]

A number of RED LIGHTS have been ID'd!

1. The Hensley and Propride weight distribution is absolutely no different than all the other common systems (weight distribution is not what is patented within these designs) and all of the hitch's weight must be included as tongue weight. Even the stinger!

If you currently weigh around 1500lbs anywhere up front (jack/coupler...whatever) you're already over the Hensley TW spec without adding anything else.

2. Weighing the trailer at the jack vs the coupler...you are losing a good foot of moment (lever) arm acting on the coupler thus likely not getting the full & accurate TW. Take the tongue weight at the coupler!

I know eTrailer shows pics of the TW taken from the jack, but you are on the edge and need a very accurate weight to know where you're at.


Now all that said, may or may not be part of your ride issue. You wont know until you change the balance of your trailer.

What is clear, is that you NEED to change the balance, if for no other reason than to get in spec of the Hensley. You're asking for head failure or at least premature bushing wear if you continue as is.

[RCMAN46]

cruz-in wrote:
Here is how I meaure tongue weight.

Using a Sherline tongue weight scale under the tongue jack, I adjust the trailer to the towing stance (which in may case is just slightly nose down) and take the reading.

I understand that, given the attach point to the vehicle is about 18 inches in front of the Tongue Jack, this TW measurement is not exact, but it should be rather close..

OK now how did you weigh the trailer? Need gross trailer weight in order to calculate TW percentage.

[cruz-in]

Here is how I meaure tongue weight.

Using a Sherline tongue weight scale under the tongue jack, I adjust the trailer to the towing stance (which in may case is just slightly nose down) and take the reading.

I understand that, given the attach point to the vehicle is about 18 inches in front of the Tongue Jack, this TW measurement is not exact, but it should be rather close..

[goducks10]

JMO, but anything stuck in the trucks receiver is TW.

[AH64ID]

Once you bolt the Hensley to the tongue it becomes TW, there is no subtracting weight.

How do you measure TW and Trailer GVW?

You have made a couple comments that make me wonder if there is an issue with the weighing. there may not be, but???