'14 Ram 2500 Axle Seals Leaking

[LIKE2BUILD]

My '14 2500 has 120,000 miles. This summer before a big trip pulling my 5th wheel out west I found both outer axle seals leaking. I replaced them along with the parking brake shoes and have pulled over 10,000 miles since then. I just recently found the seals are leaking again 😞

What's the deal with this? The pinion seal is fine, but I'm going to check the vent hose check valve to make sure I'm not building up pressure in the axle. Is there anything else that would explain these seals going out again so quick?

During the first replacement I didn't see any obvious grooves or markings on the seal surface. Is there a ready-sleeve available for the axle tube? Or, is there a double lip seal to give extra surface area to hold in the gear lube?

Final question: what is the desired fill level in the axle? I found one person talking about filling only to 1/2" below the fill plug and others talking about filling up to the plug hole. Which is it? Can over filling the axle create problems like I'm having?

KJ

[Kjun]

Had the same problem with a 86 Ford 1 ton. Wound up upgrading seals. went with a Scott seal. Motion industries sold them at the time. This would be a industrial seal and bearing warehouse. They work a little different than your automotive seals. The outside diameter of the seal is stationary to the wheel hub and the inside diameter of the seal is stationary to the axle housing. The seal surface is inside the seal itself. You do not need a axle sleeve repair kit with this seal. Expect to pay about 3 times as much for this seal. A good seal bearing store should be able to cross reference to this seal using the number off the old seal.

[Cummins12V98]

1/4" below fill hole. + - 1/4". So basically anywhere from 1/2" below to flush is correct.

[jus2shy]

OP, I hope this helps you. This is for my 2013.


Axle Ratio

3.73, 4.10


Ring Gear Diameter

292 mm (11.5 in.)


Ring Gear Backlash

0.13 - 0.18 mm (0.005 - 0.007 in.)


Pinion Torque To Rotate - New Bearings

1.69 - 2.82 N·m (15 - 25 in. lbs.)


Pinion Torque To Rotate - Original Bearings

1 - 2 N·m (10 - 20 in. lbs.)


Total Torque to Rotate - New Bearing

3.4 - 5.6 N·m (30 - 50 in. lbs.)


Total Torque to Rotate - Original Bearing

2.8 - 5.1 N·m (25 - 45 in. lbs.)


Fill Level - From Bottom of Fill Hole

6 mm (1/4 in.) ± 6 mm (1/4 in.)




all torque values are the name, then NM, then FT-Lbs.

Fill Hole Plug

32

24

-


Differential Cover Bolts

40

30

-


Bearing Cap Bolts

281

207

-


Ring Gear Bolts

237

175

-


Axle Flange Bolts

129

95

-


Adjuster Lock Bolt

25

18

-


And what I find for installing an axle seal



1.Install outer hub bearing cup with Installer 8961 and Handle C-4171 .

2.Install inner hub bearing cup with Installer 8153 and Handle C-4171 .

3.Pack bearings with the appropriate wheel bearing grease.

4.Install rear bearing and install new grease seal with Installer 8963 and Handle C-4171 .

5.Slide hub on the axle tube and install front bearing into the hub.

6.Install hub bearing nut with Socket 8954 (1) and tighten with torque wrench (2) to 30 N·m (22 ft. lbs.) while rotating the hub.

7.Back off nut about 30° and align next hub nut key slot with axle tube key slot and install locking key.

NOTE:
End play should be 0.025-0.25 mm (0.01-0.001 in.)


8.Install retainer ring (1) with ring end in the key slot (2).

9.Install new axle shaft gasket and install the axle shaft.

[Charlie_D_]

LIKE2BUILD wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:
There is an item called Speedi-sleeve....I have found that oil will weep between the O.D. of the seal and the ID. of the housing. Pematex should solve that problem.

Right, I've also used speed-sleeves, I was just wondering if anyone might know the part# for the correct sleeve to use. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of time for this repair. The truck is currently my daily driver so I need to have all parts on-hand so I can do the repair and be back on the road the next day. I don't have time to tear down, take measurements, order parts, then wait for them to come in.

With as much oil as I see in the inside of the wheel I'm guessing it will be hard to see exactly where the oil is coming from. But you're right, some permatex around the seal OD certainly won't hurt. I didn't see any obvious imperfections on the axle tube (seal ID surface) so I would have thought the new seals would fix things up. I've not had problems previously with oil leaking around the OD of seals but the extra protection using a sealant is a good idea.

KJ

If you decide to use a Speedi SLeeve the size would be the same as the seal I.D. A bearing parts house that sells the sleeves should be able to fix you up with a part number.

[SidecarFlip]

Not familiar with AAM axles but it sounds correct.

[LIKE2BUILD]

I still can't find the shop manual but did locate an SKF Torque specification guide. It covers up to 2013 model year but if I'm reading it right the spindle nut setup for any truck with the 11.5" AAM rear axle is....

Tighten hub bearing adjustment nut to 22 ft-lbs/30 Nm while turning hub.
Loosen nut approximately 30 degrees and align hub nut with axle tube key slot.
Install locking
key.
Endplay should be .001-.010”.

I'll keep look to make sure this is the same for 2014, but I think it should be the same AAM 1150 axle just the '14 has 5-link coil suspension instead of the leaf spring system.

KJ

[LIKE2BUILD]

SidecarFlip wrote:

Preload is very, very important, especially when reusing your old tapered roller bearings. I cannot stress that enough. The bearings take a 'set' and wear in so it's of extreme importance to apply preload while spinning the hub and then back it off. The back off amount varies with the axle. It can also be done with a dial indicator (and the TIR (total indicated runout will be in shop manual for your vehicle.

Every axle is different (consult a shop manual for your correct preload and back off) but the procedure is always the same, just the values change.
If the preload is too high, the bearings will fail (you'll know thats happening, they get noisy and the hub will heat up) and if too loose, the seal (and hub will wobble) and the seal will weep oil.

THe thing I have to locate is the preload values in the shop manual. Following the manual isn't a problem but I just have to find a manual to use..

[SidecarFlip]

...."I did not set pre-load on the retaining nut which could be the issue. When did I the repair I found others saying they did this by measuring the thread depth of the hub nut and then put it back in the same depth when the seal was replaced.

After searching again I did find references to pre-loading the nut to 22 ft-lbs while turning the hubg, then backing off 30 degrees to install the retainer key. I'll definitely follow this on the next repair.

KJ....."

Preload is very, very important, especially when reusing your old tapered roller bearings. I cannot stress that enough. The bearings take a 'set' and wear in so it's of extreme importance to apply preload while spinning the hub and then back it off. The back off amount varies with the axle. It can also be done with a dial indicator (and the TIR (total indicated runout will be in shop manual for your vehicle.

On my truck (Ford F350, Corporate 10.5 rear), preload is 60 pounds feet and back off is 5 clicks on the prevailing torque nut. The Ford rear uses the same setup as a Dana uses, a ratcheting prevailing torque nut that takes a special toothed socket to adjust. Every axle is different (consult a shop manual for your correct preload and back off) but the procedure is always the same, just the values change. My front (Dana 60 full floater) uses the tabbed retainer and double nuts with a different preload spec.

What is important in all this is..

If the preload is too high, the bearings will fail (you'll know thats happening, they get noisy and the hub will heat up) and if too loose, the seal (and hub will wobble) and the seal will weep oil.

If the preload is extremely high, it can impact the ring and pinion too and can destroy the rear housing.

You want a maximum of 0.0015 TIR on any hub, thats one and five ten thousands of an inch. Just enough to allow the rollers to maintain the boundary layer of lube oil.

[SidecarFlip]

I don't want to start a discussion over differential fluids but my good friend is the service manager at Freightliner of Toledo (I retired from there) and he told me to never change from the factory type of lubricant. My rear (and front) takes 90 weight GL5 Hypoid oil and that is what I always use and I change mine every 2 years as a rule. You'd be amazed how contaminated it can get from condensed moisture in the housings, especially up here in the cold north.

I use Detroit Diesel gasket maker instead of RTV. Don't believe you can buy it, it's a shop item but I can get it from Freightliner. Stuff is fantastic. All they use on Detroit Diesel engines.

[BenK]

Haven't read about this often, but remembered long ago on my Suburban forum...a similar issue with diff gasket leaks when using synthetic

Issue was silicone RTV inter-acting with the synthetic to cause the RTV to degrade & leak

Hylomar was the solution and think still have a couple tubes around the garage somewhere...

My diff covers have an OEM paper gasket that is reused. Used Hylomar on the gasket to diff cast iron flange and just diff lube on the cover side.

When changing diff fluid...loosen the diff cover bolts a couple turns. Wack the diff cover with a rubber mallet and it just pops off. Be sure to have a catch pan unerneath. Hand remove the bolts, clean and re-install the diff cover & torque to spec....done

[LIKE2BUILD]

SidecarFlip wrote:

First off, fill the fluid to where you can touch it with your second finger in the fill hole. Don't have to be at the fill hole edge, the axles, as you drive, will convey the lubricant to the ends. Not a big deal to fill to the bottom edge of the fill hole.

Got it.

SidecarFlip wrote:
Secondly, remove the vent hose entirely (from the axle fitting) and probe the fitting to make sure it's not blocked...If it's clear, take the hose and the end breather fitting (if it has one) and clean it out with solvent and compressed air and reinstall it but make sure the end is facing to the rear of the truck and is mounted up as high as possible, preferably in a sheltered spot. If the hose isn't long enough, rep-lace it. It's ordinary vacuum hose.

That was my plan.

SidecarFlip wrote:
Third, when the hubs are off, check the journals on the axle housing for gouges and use fine emery paper to polish the journal surface all around and remove any rust or gunk. OEM and aftermarket seals won't cut into the journal surface as a rule, so a sleeve seal like a Chicago rawhide CR seals is rarely needed.

Will do that again this time.

SidecarFlip wrote:
In as much as you've done this before I don't have to tell you to set the preload correctly and fill the hub cavity with lube when reinstalling, I presume you already know that (and the correct pre load torque spec as well as the number of clicks to back the prevailing torque nut off, once you pre load and spin the hub...A very remote possibility would be too little prevailing torque on the bearing pack, causing the hub assembly to wobble in use but I presume you are competent enough to pre load properly.

I did not set pre-load on the retaining nut which could be the issue. When did I the repair I found others saying they did this by measuring the thread depth of the hub nut and then put it back in the same depth when the seal was replaced.

After searching again I did find references to pre-loading the nut to 22 ft-lbs while turning the hubg, then backing off 30 degrees to install the retainer key. I'll definitely follow this on the next repair.

KJ

[ScottG]

As usual I disagree with side show.
Per Dodge/Ram instructions, it is imperative that you don't fill it up to the filler hole. It WILL make it leak. It just doesn't matter what other brands do.

Personally, I would clean it all up and remove the excess fluid. It may not ever leak again.

[SidecarFlip]

Herre is my opinions, take them for what they are worth. if nothing disregard them. I've replace a ton of seals in full floaters and clipped axles as well...

First off, fill the fluid to where you can touch it with your second finger in the fill hole. Don't have to be at the fill hole edge, the axles, as you drive, will convey the lubricant to the ends. Not a big deal to fill to the bottom edge of the fill hole.

Secondly, remove the vent hose entirely (from the axle fitting) and probe the fitting to make sure it's not blocked. Use a small screwdriver that fits in the hole. If it's clear, take the hose and the end breather fitting (if it has one) and clean it out with solvent and compressed air and reinstall it but make sure the end is facing to the rear of the truck and is mounted up as high as possible, preferably in a sheltered spot. If the hose isn't long enough, rep-lace it. It's ordinary vacuum hose.

Third, when the hubs are off, check the journals on the axle housing for gouges and use fine emery paper to polish the journal surface all around and remove any rust or gunk. OEM and aftermarket seals won't cut into the journal surface as a rule, so a sleeve seal like a Chicago rawhide CR seals is rarely needed.

In as much as you've done this before I don't have to tell you to set the preload correctly and fill the hub cavity with lube when reinstalling, I presume you already know that (and the correct pre load torque spec as well as the number of clicks to back the prevailing torque nut off, once you pre load and spin the hub...

Other than a worn seal ( they do wear out and don't last forever) the only other thing that can cause lubricant to get by the seal lip is an pressure condition in the housing, brought about bu the axle warming up in use.

A very remote possibility would be too little prevailing torque on the bearing pack, causing the hub assembly to wobble in use but I presume you are competent enough to pre load properly. If you aren't let a shop replace the seals and check the vent line. Too much prevailing torque will destroy the bearings and possible the ring and pinion, too little will cause seal failure and a noisy rear end.

That pressure condition can only be brought about by a blocked vent.

[bguy]

I'm pretty sure the spec is to fill to below the hole not up to it. Hanging on the rack BTW. Used to be if the axle was hanging to fill to the hole and once on the ground it would be below the hole. I think you had too much fluid which didn't help the seals.

[goducks10]

ScottG wrote:
Dont use Permatex on the AAM housing cover. It has a reusable rubber seal that does a great job.

x2