1996 Ford F250 camper- Long post...

[kjenckes]

Good morning all. This post is to make a few observations and ask a few questions that I think a lot of folks could benefit from. I have read everything I can here and appreciate the thoughts and experiences of all. Mostly all. Please do not preach.

My current rig:
1996 Ford F250 7.3L Powerstroke diesel, crew cab, 4wd with the weird Ford "short bed" which is 7 feet. I have Supersprings added onto my leaf springs. These are the only mod I've done for the suspension. Happi-Jac tie downs.

2006 Northstar 850SC, rear bumper, AC, roof racks, 100W solar panel attached to the racks, roof ladder, 1 group 29 battery, full bath, electric jacks and camper is always loaded with gear ready to load up up and pull out. Camper is made for SB with storage boxes and lights. It fits perfect on the 7 foot bed. 8 1/2 feet long and 7 feet wide.

The truck settles 2 1/2 inches on the driver's side and 2 3/8 inches on the passenger's side when loaded. The truck handles this great. No sway, etc.

So.... here are the numbers:
Sticker:
8800 gvwr
4600 front axle rating
6084 rear axle rating (btw these are the numbers on the recommended tires, hmmm)

truck with it's normal load of stuff including fuel and my fat ass but no camper:
7084 gross
4240 front
2840 rear

This means that, by the sticker, I only have 1716# to max GVWR but 3244 to rear axle rating. Hmmm... Did I mention I have used this set up (towing a 20 foot bassboat frequently) with out an issue and the rear only dips 2.5 inches?

Weight with the camper:
9840 gross....1040 over
4220 front... pretty good COG if you think about the front being 20# lighter with the camper on.
5620 rear which is 464 below max axle rating. That would be closer with the boat.

This means my camper weight as loaded is 2760 dry. Granted I have pots and pans, food, microwave, clothes, etc but that weight surprised me a little for a soft side. Hard sides weigh in the same area.

I am looking for a different camper this winter. No I am not buying a new truck. This truck has 600,000 miles left on her. I want a hard side camper. I'm a common sense kind of guy as opposed to a strict sticker guy so I asked my son about the weight ratings. He is a school trained diesel mechanic and he asked his mentors. The question: How much over the stated rating is the true failure weight? We know these things are rated way under for liability concerns. Their answer: "You will never reach that weight. The tires will wear a little faster at some point above the rating but no catastrophic failure. The axles? Never" Not with out flattening the truck.

So let's look for better tires and wheels. 19.5 right? They do not make them to fit this style Ford. At least I can not find them on line nor can my tire shop. He can find me an E rated tire with a 3400# rating as compared to the typical 3042. He also said the tires will not fail me even over weight. My current weight is 464 under and this 800 extra would give me 1264# of cushion tire wise currently. Cool.

So campers. Before I weighed it and talked to my son and the tire guy I had been looking strictly at 8 1/2 footers to stay fairly close to the current weight. Now I am thinking maybe a 9 or 9 1/2 footer. Maybe even a 10 footer. The COG is pretty much a hard line for me though. There are several Lances (915 and a 1025) with the same COG as my 850 so I know weight distribution should be basically the same. The posted weights for a 10'3" Lance 1025 is 2370 dry and basic w/o options. Adding 800 # for the options and my stuff is only 430# more than my 8 1/2 footer.

So my thoughts are.... An extra 430# or even 1000# should be fine. I may at that point add Stable Loads though. Keeping in mind the COG for handling. I compared my truck to the same year F350.That F350 has a GVWR of only 400# more. That's ridiculous.

My questions:
Who here has a similar truck and ratings and a larger camper? Considering all of the weight arguments someone has to.
What are they?
What are your numbers?
What are your experiences and thoughts about your set up?
Did you do anything extra for suspension mods after buying a larger camper?

[bigfootford]

Vinsil wrote:
Your good, had a '95 F350 and 10' camper on it. Worked great.

Also, have vision 19.5's on my current truck in black and agree, the upkeep is simple.

Wish I would have gone with the black... Our trip to Alaska and Prudhoe bay produced checks in the clear coat and beat the plastic chrome on the hub covers bad.. 500 miles of muddy rock and Calcium chlorite are a killer. Think the black would have survived better.

Jim

[bigfootford]

Kjenckes, congratulations. Sounds like and looks like you got a nice Lance! Just keep an eye on any leakage from those windows and running lights. They are very problematic. Catch a leak early and that camper will last you a long time.

Interesting that the camper removed 100# off the front... I would presume the reason for that is the shorter bed. My camper added 300#. Maybe it is the crew cab v/s super cab. My truck is a f250 94 with the gasser 460.

My camper and truck weights 10,400.

Jim

[kjenckes]

So I thought a follow up was in order.

After much research and thought I decided to stay with my current rims and do a better tire. I bought 265/75/16s that have a rating of 3400# each. I was going to get 285s with a 3700# rating but there was concern about fit and rubbing. These 265s have 3400# vs the 3042# of my old 235s for an increase of 358# each or 716# for the rear combined. I was 400# under with my Northstar so I figured this would give me 800# to play with and still be quite comfortable. So shopping I went.

A review:
The truck is a 1996 F250 crewcab powerstroke diesel with that weird 7 foot SB.

The old camper was a 2006 Northstar 850SC pop up. Loaded. 2760 dry which is how I typically travel. It is a 7 foot wide by 8ft 6 inch long floor plan designed for SB trucks.

I got lots of good advice for which I thank everyone. Some advocated that a 9+ footer would be fine and others advised against it. I kept an open mind while I searched. I looked at the same size campers, other Northstars and Lance 815s which I knew size wise would be fine. I really wanted something a little bigger. I looked at some nice slide outs. These are funny as some are only 150-200#s heavier than a non slide while others are 600-800#s more. While I would have preferred another Northstar with the cassette potty there aren't many in the northeast for sale used. My budget was $10-11,000 but less would be better as always.

I found a Lance 820 a little west of Scranton, PA in my price range. The seller seemed to be a good guy and took all the different angle pictures I wanted before making the 6+ hour drive to look at it. 2 weeks ago I made the trip. Seemed to be in very good shape. Loaded. Even has a solar panel and generator. Sweet.
Brochure:
8'11" box so 5" longer floor space
8 feet wide
2585# dry and base wgt
33gal fresh water
21gal gray
14 black
5CF frigde
2 propane tanks

So I knew that my Northstar squatted my truck 2 1/2". I lowered the lance on and it went another 1/4-3/8 inch. Seemed pretty good to me. It is a much bigger feel in it and outside when driving, backing, etc. The truck handled it very well.

I got home with it and spent some time cleaning it and tweaking things. The storage was actually an issue initially. It had some cabinets in the cabover that are useless to me in the kitchen area and there are no outside compartments in the wings due to the generator and the septic pipes and control. I got the inside where I want it cabinet wise, a new memory foam mattress, and switched all my light bulbs to LED.

Last week I stopped at the scale. I have to admit I was a bit nervous as someone on another post said their 820 weighed 4000#.

Sticker ratings:
Sticker:
8800 gvwr
4600 front axle rating
6084 rear axle rating (btw these are the numbers on the recommended tires, hmmm)

Truck, fuel, and me:
7084 gross
4240 front
2840 rear

Northstar and truck weight:
Weight with the camper:
9840 gross....1040 over
4220 front... pretty good COG if you think about the front being 20# lighter with the camper on.
5620 rear

Lance, truck, and me:
gross 10,460
front 4140 (lifted 100# off front end compared to 20# by the Northstar)
rear 6320 (new tires are rated to 6800# combined)

The Lance should weigh (give or take 50ish #s) 3376 loaded but dry and the Northstar was 2760 loaded and dry.

So overall I think it's pretty good. This camper loaded but dry is 616# heavier than the Northstar and 500# below the tire limits so a good trade and upgrade all around. I already had SuperSprings (I think the 2200# ones) on the rear but will probably do some airbags now for leveling.

Northstar after a bath for the sales listing:

Click For Full-Size Image.

The Lance leaving PA for it's new home:

Click For Full-Size Image.

I think the Lance needs a red stripe or something.

[Bedlam]

FYI: OP's 1996 Ford uses the Sterling 10.25 rear axle which has a maximum rating of 8250 lbs. In 1999, Ford went to the Sterling 10.5 rear with a rating of 9750 lbs.

[Vinsil]

Your good, had a '95 F350 and 10' camper on it. Worked great.

Also, have vision 19.5's on my current truck in black and agree, the upkeep is simple.

[bigfootford]

As a note, if you decide to do the Visions there are different depth of the hub covers.. Deep and shallow.. Make sure you get the Deep if needed.

If I were to do Visions again I would get the black ones. My rims and truck took a beating going to Prudhoe Bay and other dirt/rock roads. The Clear coat paint has crazed due to rocks etc hitting them.
My buddy has Visions with the clear coat and his still looks pretty good but he has not been where we go with our rig.

Jim

[bigfootford]

kjenckes wrote:
Thanks to the good advice as always.

Big foot Ford- When I went to the Vision wheels site it does not list 19.5s for our trucks. Which one did you buy and did it need any mods?

kjenckes wrote:
Thanks to the good advice as always.

Big foot Ford- When I went to the Vision wheels site it does not list 19.5s for our trucks. Which one did you buy and did it need any mods?

Haw, had the same problem...

Called Heavy Haulers!





http://www.visionwheel.com/wheel.cfm?id=6854

I went to Les Schawb for mine, tires and all.

Jim

[kjenckes]

Thanks to the good advice as always.

Big foot Ford- When I went to the Vision wheels site it does not list 19.5s for our trucks. Which one did you buy and did it need any mods?

[sonuvabug]

kjenckes wrote:
... snipped ... My questions:
Who here has a similar truck and ratings and a larger camper? Considering all of the weight arguments someone has to.
What are they?
What are your numbers?
What are your experiences and thoughts about your set up?
Did you do anything extra for suspension mods after buying a larger camper?

kjenckes, I've posted a link to my truck/TC situation which is similar to yours ... and the Sumo Spring solution I ended up with. If you read the entire thread, I believe you'll find my answers to all of your posted questions. I couldn't be happier with my decision because the Sumo Springs really work as advertised. Here's my story:

2001 F250 Sumo Spring Solution

[NRALIFR]

I started RVing in 1986 with a 1982 F250 and a brand new 9.5' Jayco TC. The truck was the first year of the diesel powered Fords, using the IH 6.9L V8. 150 hp, 285 tq.

I never weighed it, but I'm sure that truck was grossly overloaded when the camper was on it. But, I drove it all over the US, sometimes even pulling a flatbed car hauler as well. The original owner had replaced the tires and wheels with stuff that looked good, but was actually under-rated for the truck. After several tire and wheel failures I finally replaced them all with higher rated tires and wheels, and never had any more issues. Lesson learned with that rig: don't overload the tires and wheels.

I replaced the F250 with a 1995 F350 CC dually, which was the first year of the 7.3L Powerstroke diesel. 235 hp/425 tq. I carried a second new Jayco TC on it that was called a 950, but was actually 10 ft long. I also carried my current 2001 Lance 1121 on it. I did weigh that rig once, and it was about 12,600 with the Lance on it. So it was also overloaded just a bit :W I had no tire or wheel problems with that truck after replacing everything with Michelin XPS traction tires on Alcoa wheels. I had airbags on the rear axle, and the lesson learned with that rig was: don't let the airbags carry too much of the load. Airbags are fine up to a point, but it's actually better to let the steel springs carry the majority of the weight. After having a couple extra leaves added to the overload springs on that truck, I could lower the pressure in the airbags to about 40 psi and it rode a lot better.

Replaced that truck with a 2010 F450, 6.4L diesel. 350 hp, 650 tq. It was great having a truck that could haul a 5500 lb TC with almost no mod's or upgrades to the suspension or engine. I made some homemade "stableloads" for it and that was it. Loved everything about that truck except the type of emissions control all diesels used at that time. They had DPF's but didn't use DEF. The truck never broke down and it made crazy amounts of power, but I got tired of the erratic regen behavior and wondering if it was ABOUT to break down while trying to relax on vacation. I never weighed that rig either, but the 2008-2010 F450 had a 14,500 lb gvwr. The truck weighed about 9200 lbs, so I suspect it was overloaded by a couple hundred pounds with the camper loaded. Lesson learned with that truck: the F450 is actually one of the best TC haulers made. Little to no mod's needed, and the wide-track front axle gives it a turning radius that is small-car like. I came to believe that diesels with DPF's but no DEF can be troublesome. I decided to avoid them.

Replaced that truck just a few months ago with my current 2016 F450. 6.7L 440 hp, 860 tq. I had been hoping Ford would go back to building an F450 like the '08-'10 models, instead of the dumbed-down abominations they were building for a few years (2011-2014?). The 2015 and '16 F450's are very close to the same as my 2010, but better! For some dumazz reason they lowered the gvwr to 14,000 though, so technically the new truck is more overloaded than the old one. I still think it's one of the best heavy TC haulers made though, and the only mod I've done to mine is adding some real Stableloads instead of my homemade ones. Lesson learned with this truck: Well, I'm still learning. I enjoy it more every time I drive it. No great revelations yet.

:):)

[burningman]

That rear axle is a 10.25 Sterling. No junkyard hunting for something else is needed, it's extremely stout.
Your truck is not gonna break.

[VTLee]

I have a 97 F250 with the factory camper package that we bought new. We have a 9.5ft. Sunline camper that weighs 2400 dry, probably over 3000 wet. I just added upper stableloads as the factory rubber stops were getting worn. We only use the truck for camping and have 160K miles on it. The truck rides better and handles just as well with the camper on than with it off. Stay around 3000 to 3500 lbs. and you should be ok. You might want to add the upper stableloads as I experienced an improvement with them. It took some of the bounce out.

[JoeChiOhki]

bigfootford wrote:

JoeChiOhki wrote:
Might be worth doing a little junkyard diving like I did for a higher rated rear axle to give you a little extra wiggle room, it'll extend the service life of your bearings and their races. The added bonus of larger brakes didn't hurt either.


On the campers, the newer they are, the heavier they tend to be because of the extra features, filon (Its very heavy), slides etc....

Anything longer than the specialized short box 9' units is going to have too much overhang with a short bed truck.

When you get up towards the 9 1/2 - 10 ft range, you can safely plan on a dry weight of around 3000-3200lbs or somewhat close there in, and around 4000-4200 fully decked out with all your gear, full tanks etc....

The rear Axle rating for F250 around those years is:

Visteon web site it states 9750 lbs

The rear axle rating is limited on the SRW by the tire rating,
if you have 235/85 R16E's you have 3042 lbs x 2 = 6084
265/85 R16E's are 3415 x 2 = 6830
the dually tires would be 2778 x 4 = 11,112

The rating of the actual axle is 9750 lbs.

So there is quite a bit of margin for the actual axle itself..

Jim

Those Fords had a much bigger axle, my 3/4 ton had a D60 on it originally that I replaced with a D70HD off a motorhome chassis.

[Artum_Snowbird]

As one with a F350, same engine... questions: With the 7 foot box, how much did that shorten the wheelbase compared to an 8 foot box? The point of this is, camper center of gravity and how that will affect your handling.

When I bought my 350 the previous owner had a 9.5 Bigfoot on it with airbags. He found it so stiff, he took the overload springs out and made it into a 250. I put a 4500 pound loaded camper on it with the overload springs back in and it just engaged the overload but I also added 19.5's too.

So your situation, you will want to try to find a camper with weight forward in it's construction. Often the fixed things like stoves and tables don't accumulate weight while travelling, but cupboards and fridges do. A wide camper at 100 inches doesn't need to be as long to have the same inside feeling as a camper that is only 90 inches wide.

Some good real information in the answers, but do not overdo it or it just won't feel easy to drive.