2016 CTD 6.7 oil change questions

[Ron3rd]

Getting ready to do the first oil change on the new CTD. I've watched all the youtube videos regarding the PITA oil filter removal and spillage avoidance. Just wanted to get some feedback on how others are getting the filter out of the very small window provided in the fender well. Some use the Gino's cap off tool to seal the filter at the top, but that looks like a hassle. Others drop the filter into a zip lock bag or trash bag. What are you folks doing?

Also, Costco has a good deal on on 3 gallons of Chevron Delo 400 SDE oil ($28.99) and would like to know if others are using this oil.

I'll be using the Stratopore filter by the way.

TIA

[Me_Again]

jwoods61us wrote:

Me Again wrote:


I believe you are wrong about the oil path. Chris

"OPERATION
A gerotor style oil pump draws oil from the crankcase through the suction tube and delivers it through the block where it enters the oil cooler cover and pressure regulator valve. When oil pressure exceeds 517 kPa (75 PSI), the valve opens exposing the dump port, which routes excess oil back to the oil pump.
"

I believe you mis-read your own evidence. How else can the oil get through the block except via galleys and passages? I've been inside enough engines to know how an oil pump works.

As for the contaminates that are poured in via the valve cover, if you read the article it explains that those are caught on the outside of the filter, as designed.

I will agree with that point. However a dry filter delays the time for oil to lubricate the engines important moving parts.

[jwoods61us]

Me Again wrote:


I believe you are wrong about the oil path. Chris

"OPERATION
A gerotor style oil pump draws oil from the crankcase through the suction tube and delivers it through the block where it enters the oil cooler cover and pressure regulator valve. When oil pressure exceeds 517 kPa (75 PSI), the valve opens exposing the dump port, which routes excess oil back to the oil pump.
"

I believe you mis-read your own evidence. How else can the oil get through the block except via galleys and passages? I've been inside enough engines to know how an oil pump works.

As for the contaminates that are poured in via the valve cover, if you read the article it explains that those are caught on the outside of the filter, as designed.

[Cummins12V98]

I have pre filled for over one million miles no oil related issues. Probably would not have a issue if I did not. Even if Cummins did not recommend pre filling I would still do it.

[Grit_dog]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Filters do not need pre filling either. Another myth."

I guess Cummins recommending the filter be pre filled is "Another Myth" ?

?? IDK.
I'm a guy, so I grew up not reading directions, lol. Don't know what Cummins says about it. Heck I don't even know what the payload of my truck is, but in the probably thousand or more oil filters I've changed on everything from large construction equipment to lawn mowers I haven't prefilled the filters. (Changed a lot of oil in high school and college maintaining a fleet of equipment)
Pretty sure that would have come back to bite me by now if it was an issue.

I agree that it, in no way can hurt to pre fill a filter with clean oil and on some microscopic level "may" extend engine life, but I do not believe for a second that it is a great contributor or a contributor at all to premature failure.

Heck, I just lost the oil in my snowbike, (yz450 conversion), 3rd gear pinned up hill in 2' of heavy powder. Smoked the piston/cylinder. I'll admit I got lucky that that's all the damage, bottom end is tight and cams/journals mic out to within spec, valave guides don't leak. This is an extreme example, but the piston cooling and cylinder lube squirters ran out long enough to basically cold seize the piston. If running without oil long enough to do that damage didn't trash the crank bearings and valvetrain, 2seconds at idle ona cold engine while the filter fills won't.
Again I'd ask about lube systems with horizontal or upside down mounted filters that drain back when shut down. Why don't those blow up?

[cummins2014]

Wild Card wrote:

Me Again wrote:

jwoods61us wrote:
Here is the reason not to pre fill the oil filter.

Clicky

Keep in mind, the oil cycles from the pump, through the galleys and bearings, then the filter before returning to the crankcase. The filter is the last point to get oil on startup.

And if a tiny sliver of silver foil is poured in the valve cover, where does it end up? Those that would pour it in the filter could just as easily pour it into the engine it's self.

I believe you are wrong about the oil path. Chris

"OPERATION
A gerotor style oil pump draws oil from the crankcase through the suction tube and delivers it through the block where it enters the oil cooler cover and pressure regulator valve. When oil pressure exceeds 517 kPa (75 PSI), the valve opens exposing the dump port, which routes excess oil back to the oil pump.

At the same time, oil is directed to a cast in passage in the oil cooler cover, leading to the oil cooler element. As the oil travels through the element plates, it is cooled by engine coolant traveling past the outside of the plates. It is then routed to the oil filter head and through a full flow oil filter. If a plugged filter is encountered, the filter by-pass valve opens, allowing unfiltered oil to lubricate the engine. This condition can be avoided by frequent oil and filter changes, per the maintenance schedules found in the owners manual. The by-pass valve is calibrated to open when it sees a pressure drop of more than 345 kPa (50 psi) across the oil filter.
The oil filter head then divides the oil between the engine and the turbocharger. The turbocharger receives filtered, cooled and pressurized oil through a supply line from the filter head. The oil lubricates the turbocharger and returns to the pan by way of a drain tube connecting the bottom of the turbocharger to a tube in the cylinder block.

CAUTION:

Two different styles of J-jet piston cooling nozzles and nozzle mounting fasteners are used, depending on engine build date. The two designs are NOT interchangeable. One design uses an all metal piston cooling nozzle (1) with a fluted mounting capscrew (3). The second design uses a plastic nozzle/body/locating arm (5) , and a metal nozzle tip (4). The second design nozzle must be used with a banjo bolt (6). When replacing piston cooling nozzles, it is important to replace the cooling nozzle mounting fastener with the same type that was removed. Do not intermix both designs in the same engine. Severe engine damage can result if the two designs are intermixed.

Oil is then carried across the block to an angle drilling which intersects the main oil rifle (3). The main oil rifle (3) runs the length of the block and delivers oil to the crankshaft main journals and valve train. Oil travels to the crankshaft through a series of transfer drillings (one for each main bearing) and lubricates a groove in the main bearing upper shell. From there another drilling feeds the camshaft main journals. J-jet piston cooling nozzles (1,4) are supplied by a separate oil rifle. Plugs are used in place of saddle jets when J-jets are used. Crankshaft internal cross-drillings supply oil to the connecting rod journals.
Another series of transfer drillings intersecting the main oil rifle supply (14) the valve train components. Oil travels up the drilling, through a hole in the head gasket, and through a drilling in the cylinder head (one per cylinder), where it enters the rocker arm pedestal (3) and is divided between the intake and exhaust rocker arm (1). Oil travels up and around the rocker arm mounting bolt, and lubricates the rocker shaft (2) by cross drillings that intersect the mounting bolt hole. Grooves at both ends of the rocker shaft supply oil through the rocker arm where the oil travels to the push rod and socket balls."

good point but oil path from sump to pump to filter...what ever pours from valve cover ends up in sump into filter theoretically .


my point in all this is people are worried about a dry start after oil change, so they take 1/2 the intake apart to change a filter and be able to pre fill it.

Is it really necessary? If Cummins or any engine mfg was worried it would be law of the land not just a recommendation.

There is nothing in the Ram diesel supplement on pre filling the oil filter. I would sure like to read where that is a requirement . I have pre filled on both my diesel trucks, but prior to that have never filled a oil filter before installing. Been lucky I guess . 🙂

[Wild_Card]

Me Again wrote:

jwoods61us wrote:
Here is the reason not to pre fill the oil filter.

Clicky

Keep in mind, the oil cycles from the pump, through the galleys and bearings, then the filter before returning to the crankcase. The filter is the last point to get oil on startup.

And if a tiny sliver of silver foil is poured in the valve cover, where does it end up? Those that would pour it in the filter could just as easily pour it into the engine it's self.

I believe you are wrong about the oil path. Chris

"OPERATION
A gerotor style oil pump draws oil from the crankcase through the suction tube and delivers it through the block where it enters the oil cooler cover and pressure regulator valve. When oil pressure exceeds 517 kPa (75 PSI), the valve opens exposing the dump port, which routes excess oil back to the oil pump.

At the same time, oil is directed to a cast in passage in the oil cooler cover, leading to the oil cooler element. As the oil travels through the element plates, it is cooled by engine coolant traveling past the outside of the plates. It is then routed to the oil filter head and through a full flow oil filter. If a plugged filter is encountered, the filter by-pass valve opens, allowing unfiltered oil to lubricate the engine. This condition can be avoided by frequent oil and filter changes, per the maintenance schedules found in the owners manual. The by-pass valve is calibrated to open when it sees a pressure drop of more than 345 kPa (50 psi) across the oil filter.
The oil filter head then divides the oil between the engine and the turbocharger. The turbocharger receives filtered, cooled and pressurized oil through a supply line from the filter head. The oil lubricates the turbocharger and returns to the pan by way of a drain tube connecting the bottom of the turbocharger to a tube in the cylinder block.

CAUTION:

Two different styles of J-jet piston cooling nozzles and nozzle mounting fasteners are used, depending on engine build date. The two designs are NOT interchangeable. One design uses an all metal piston cooling nozzle (1) with a fluted mounting capscrew (3). The second design uses a plastic nozzle/body/locating arm (5) , and a metal nozzle tip (4). The second design nozzle must be used with a banjo bolt (6). When replacing piston cooling nozzles, it is important to replace the cooling nozzle mounting fastener with the same type that was removed. Do not intermix both designs in the same engine. Severe engine damage can result if the two designs are intermixed.

Oil is then carried across the block to an angle drilling which intersects the main oil rifle (3). The main oil rifle (3) runs the length of the block and delivers oil to the crankshaft main journals and valve train. Oil travels to the crankshaft through a series of transfer drillings (one for each main bearing) and lubricates a groove in the main bearing upper shell. From there another drilling feeds the camshaft main journals. J-jet piston cooling nozzles (1,4) are supplied by a separate oil rifle. Plugs are used in place of saddle jets when J-jets are used. Crankshaft internal cross-drillings supply oil to the connecting rod journals.
Another series of transfer drillings intersecting the main oil rifle supply (14) the valve train components. Oil travels up the drilling, through a hole in the head gasket, and through a drilling in the cylinder head (one per cylinder), where it enters the rocker arm pedestal (3) and is divided between the intake and exhaust rocker arm (1). Oil travels up and around the rocker arm mounting bolt, and lubricates the rocker shaft (2) by cross drillings that intersect the mounting bolt hole. Grooves at both ends of the rocker shaft supply oil through the rocker arm where the oil travels to the push rod and socket balls."

good point but oil path from sump to pump to filter...what ever pours from valve cover ends up in sump into filter theoretically .


my point in all this is people are worried about a dry start after oil change, so they take 1/2 the intake apart to change a filter and be able to pre fill it.

Is it really necessary? If Cummins or any engine mfg was worried it would be law of the land not just a recommendation.

[Wild_Card]

http://www.beamalarm.com/Documents/cummins_system_diagrams.html

[Me_Again]

jwoods61us wrote:
Here is the reason not to pre fill the oil filter.

Clicky

Keep in mind, the oil cycles from the pump, through the galleys and bearings, then the filter before returning to the crankcase. The filter is the last point to get oil on startup.

And if a tiny sliver of silver foil is poured in the valve cover, where does it end up? Those that would pour it in the filter could just as easily pour it into the engine it's self.

I believe you are wrong about the oil path. Chris

"OPERATION
A gerotor style oil pump draws oil from the crankcase through the suction tube and delivers it through the block where it enters the oil cooler cover and pressure regulator valve. When oil pressure exceeds 517 kPa (75 PSI), the valve opens exposing the dump port, which routes excess oil back to the oil pump.

At the same time, oil is directed to a cast in passage in the oil cooler cover, leading to the oil cooler element. As the oil travels through the element plates, it is cooled by engine coolant traveling past the outside of the plates. It is then routed to the oil filter head and through a full flow oil filter. If a plugged filter is encountered, the filter by-pass valve opens, allowing unfiltered oil to lubricate the engine. This condition can be avoided by frequent oil and filter changes, per the maintenance schedules found in the owners manual. The by-pass valve is calibrated to open when it sees a pressure drop of more than 345 kPa (50 psi) across the oil filter.
The oil filter head then divides the oil between the engine and the turbocharger. The turbocharger receives filtered, cooled and pressurized oil through a supply line from the filter head. The oil lubricates the turbocharger and returns to the pan by way of a drain tube connecting the bottom of the turbocharger to a tube in the cylinder block.

CAUTION:

Two different styles of J-jet piston cooling nozzles and nozzle mounting fasteners are used, depending on engine build date. The two designs are NOT interchangeable. One design uses an all metal piston cooling nozzle (1) with a fluted mounting capscrew (3). The second design uses a plastic nozzle/body/locating arm (5) , and a metal nozzle tip (4). The second design nozzle must be used with a banjo bolt (6). When replacing piston cooling nozzles, it is important to replace the cooling nozzle mounting fastener with the same type that was removed. Do not intermix both designs in the same engine. Severe engine damage can result if the two designs are intermixed.

Oil is then carried across the block to an angle drilling which intersects the main oil rifle (3). The main oil rifle (3) runs the length of the block and delivers oil to the crankshaft main journals and valve train. Oil travels to the crankshaft through a series of transfer drillings (one for each main bearing) and lubricates a groove in the main bearing upper shell. From there another drilling feeds the camshaft main journals. J-jet piston cooling nozzles (1,4) are supplied by a separate oil rifle. Plugs are used in place of saddle jets when J-jets are used. Crankshaft internal cross-drillings supply oil to the connecting rod journals.
Another series of transfer drillings intersecting the main oil rifle supply (14) the valve train components. Oil travels up the drilling, through a hole in the head gasket, and through a drilling in the cylinder head (one per cylinder), where it enters the rocker arm pedestal (3) and is divided between the intake and exhaust rocker arm (1). Oil travels up and around the rocker arm mounting bolt, and lubricates the rocker shaft (2) by cross drillings that intersect the mounting bolt hole. Grooves at both ends of the rocker shaft supply oil through the rocker arm where the oil travels to the push rod and socket balls."

[Wild_Card]

jwoods61us wrote:
Here is the reason not to pre fill the oil filter.

Clicky

Keep in mind, the oil cycles from the pump, through the galleys and bearings, then the filter before returning to the crankcase. The filter is the last point to get oil on startup.

ding, ding, ding

Edit as I didnt read what you typed after the link.

You are wrong on the oil flow path. I will post a picture or add link to cummins 6BT oil flow, fuel flow charts etc

[jwoods61us]

Here is the reason not to pre fill the oil filter.

Clicky

Keep in mind, the oil cycles from the pump, through the galleys and bearings, then the filter before returning to the crankcase. The filter is the last point to get oil on startup.

[cummins2014]

FishOnOne wrote:

cummins2014 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Five pages on how to change the oil.... :R

And to show pictures of removing the intake on a brand new engine is one thing, but an engine that is worked hard and is loaded with dirt, dust, mud, ect.... the last thing I would want is to expose my turbo inlet.

The techs at the dealers go thru the small cut out in the fender to mitigate risk when changing oil.

Yes , and they do the finger method, don't know where this taking the intake came from, but it sure isn't done that way by the people that do it every day. I fell prey the first two oil changes until I finally got smart :B

So far this a pretty short discussion ,ought to get on a Cummins forum, it will go one for days, and who knows how many pages. Same old ,same old fender well or thru the top. Pick your poison both are pretty awkward .

Well said...

I only got 5k miles on my current load of oil in the sump and I'm getting the itch to turn a wrench and drain it. I drain the sump and the filter in parallel. Pre fill the oil filter (yes I'm a pre filler) spin the oil filter on hand tight, install the drain plug, add 13 quarts (3 gallon containers and 1 quart) drain used oil back into containers and at ~20 minutes I'm cranking the big PowerStroke up and rolling. :B

You are not telling me anything , I remember fondly the 16 years changing the oil, and filter on my old Superduty 7.3. :)You won't read multiple pages on whats the best method, its just a straight forward deal on the PowerStroke

Those 2017 Superduties are looking better all the time :B

[FishOnOne]

cummins2014 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Five pages on how to change the oil.... :R

And to show pictures of removing the intake on a brand new engine is one thing, but an engine that is worked hard and is loaded with dirt, dust, mud, ect.... the last thing I would want is to expose my turbo inlet.

The techs at the dealers go thru the small cut out in the fender to mitigate risk when changing oil.

Yes , and they do the finger method, don't know where this taking the intake came from, but it sure isn't done that way by the people that do it every day. I fell prey the first two oil changes until I finally got smart :B

So far this a pretty short discussion ,ought to get on a Cummins forum, it will go one for days, and who knows how many pages. Same old ,same old fender well or thru the top. Pick your poison both are pretty awkward .

Well said...

I only got 5k miles on my current load of oil in the sump and I'm getting the itch to turn a wrench and drain it. I drain the sump and the filter in parallel. Pre fill the oil filter (yes I'm a pre filler) spin the oil filter on hand tight, install the drain plug, add 13 quarts (3 gallon containers and 1 quart) drain used oil back into containers and at ~20 minutes I'm cranking the big PowerStroke up and rolling. :B

[Wild_Card]

Me Again wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Five pages on how to change the oil.... :R

And to show pictures of removing the intake on a brand new engine is one thing, but an engine that is worked hard and is loaded with dirt, dust, mud, ect.... the last thing I would want is to expose my turbo inlet.

The techs at the dealers go thru the small cut out in the fender to mitigate risk when changing oil.

Pretty much all the youtube videos I've seen show the "through the side of the wheel well method", and it's looks pretty easy, the only issue is getting the filter OUT without spilling oil everywhere. That's why many drop it down into a zip lock or other plastic bag to minimize spillage. As to the out the top method, just seems to be personal preference to me.

Here's what I would look into.

Link

Anyone that would put a Fram filter on a Cummins needs their head examined!

I will 2nd that

[Me_Again]

FishOnOne wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:
Five pages on how to change the oil.... :R

And to show pictures of removing the intake on a brand new engine is one thing, but an engine that is worked hard and is loaded with dirt, dust, mud, ect.... the last thing I would want is to expose my turbo inlet.

The techs at the dealers go thru the small cut out in the fender to mitigate risk when changing oil.

Pretty much all the youtube videos I've seen show the "through the side of the wheel well method", and it's looks pretty easy, the only issue is getting the filter OUT without spilling oil everywhere. That's why many drop it down into a zip lock or other plastic bag to minimize spillage. As to the out the top method, just seems to be personal preference to me.

Here's what I would look into.

Link

Anyone that would put a Fram filter on a Cummins needs their head examined!