Adding air bags: can that increase payload capacity?

[DesertDogs]

Does adding airbags to a pickup truck tow vehicle increase the payload capacity of the truck?

For example, take a pickup with 3500 lbs. of payload capacity. If one were to add air bags to such a pickup, could that realistically increase the payload capacity from 3500 lbs. to 4000 lbs.?

Also, does adding airbags improve ride quality in the truck?

We're thinking of going with a 2019 3/4 ton RAM or 1 ton RAM as our every day driver and also as a tow vehicle for a fairly short 5th wheel.

I'm trying to decide which would be the best route to follow when buying a truck that will serve mostly as a daily driver, with occasional use to tow a 5th wheel.

3/4 ton with air bags added?
1 ton without air bags?
1 ton with air bags added?

Or....???

[Grit_dog]

2112 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:
Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.

Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol

Was I wrong in my reply? The OPs question was will it increase his payload. The answer is NO. It will decrease his payload by the weight of 2 gallons of milk, a case of beer and a seedless melon

But it's the overtly literal way in which you stated it, that inferred that the dead weight added by the bags may actually be of any real world concern.
Although, looking at your sig pic, maybe pulling that 5ver with a F150 you are concerned about every gallon of milk and case of beer adding more weight. Shoot, better start weighing the wife's purse and make sure if you've accounted for healthy bowel movements of all passengers before embarking on a trip!

[PA12DRVR]

I've had setups where my truck / trailer (and not only RV's) was within the "numbers" (GVWR, GCVWR, axle ratings, etc) and the truck sagged so much that I simply didn't like it. Airbags, helper springs, etc would help level the setup, even if not affecting the numbers / rating

...hence airbags would have been a desirable feature.

The basic question is whether one will be concerned about the numbers...if you're going to stay within them, then for this posting, a dually is probably the truck to get. If one is not going to be overly concerned about the numbers, probably a new-ish SRW truck could work.

I always tend to want to stay in the numbers but in years past, based on CAT weighings, I've had one combo that was about 15% over the GCVWR, although within axle and GVWR, and strangely enough, in about 15,000 miles with that combo, it didn't blow up.

[ShinerBock]

twodownzero wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.

In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.

Not according to the New Mexico motor vehicle code in the link below. It states in section 66-3-1.2 that a vehicles registration is based upon "declared" gross weight not rated gross weight. The same as Texas and many other states.

"66-3-1.2. REGISTRATION--DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--Except as
otherwise provided by law, the division shall register each truck, truck
tractor, road tractor and bus required to be registered under the
international registration plan or reciprocal agreements with other
jurisdictions for a declared gross weight not to exceed the legal limitation
established by this state. "


Also the fine is the same as well where you have to pay for the GVWR you got caught with for all the years you have owned the vehicle and you also have to register it with that GVWR from that moment on until you no longer own the vehicle.

"66-3-21. VEHICLE EXCEEDING DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--
A. Except as otherwise provided by law, a vehicle or combination
shall not be operated upon the public highways of this state when the gross
vehicle weight or gross combination vehicle weight exceeds the declared gross
weight. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be:
(1) assessed a penalty for the lapsed portion of the registration
period in an amount equal to the difference between the fee for the declared
gross weight and the fee for the gross vehicle weight or gross combination
vehicle weight at which the vehicle or combination was weighed; and
(2) required to register the vehicle or combination at the higher
declared gross weight in accordance with the weight at the time of the
violation for the remainder of the registration period and to pay that fee.
B. Such registration shall not be construed to authorize the movement
of loads in violation of the state's size and weight laws.
"


New Mexico Motor Vehicle Laws

I'm not going to argue with you other than to say you are wrong. You have to dig into the regulations to figure out why, which I'm not inclined to do, but I have posted links to them on here before. It is not lawful to operate any vehicle in excess of its rated capacity in New Mexico and it violates at least two provisions of the motor vehicle code any time it occurs. If one is trailering while doing so, it is a third violation.

Not according to New Mexico law. It is only illegal to go over the registered (declared) weight, not the vehicles rated weight by the manufacturer. There are also axle weights and bridge weights, but a pickup truck is likely to never exceed them. It is not like New Mexico or any other state has a database of every truck configuration that has ever existed or actually goes out to your vehicle to check the door sticker when you register a vehicles. Hence the reason why they go by "declared" weight.

[2112]

Grit dog wrote:

2112 wrote:
Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.

Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol

Was I wrong in my reply? The OPs question was will it increase his payload. The answer is NO. It will decrease his payload by the weight of 2 gallons of milk, a case of beer and a seedless melon

[twodownzero]

ShinerBock wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.

In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.

Not according to the New Mexico motor vehicle code in the link below. It states in section 66-3-1.2 that a vehicles registration is based upon "declared" gross weight not rated gross weight. The same as Texas and many other states.

"66-3-1.2. REGISTRATION--DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--Except as
otherwise provided by law, the division shall register each truck, truck
tractor, road tractor and bus required to be registered under the
international registration plan or reciprocal agreements with other
jurisdictions for a declared gross weight not to exceed the legal limitation
established by this state. "


Also the fine is the same as well where you have to pay for the GVWR you got caught with for all the years you have owned the vehicle and you also have to register it with that GVWR from that moment on until you no longer own the vehicle.

"66-3-21. VEHICLE EXCEEDING DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--
A. Except as otherwise provided by law, a vehicle or combination
shall not be operated upon the public highways of this state when the gross
vehicle weight or gross combination vehicle weight exceeds the declared gross
weight. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be:
(1) assessed a penalty for the lapsed portion of the registration
period in an amount equal to the difference between the fee for the declared
gross weight and the fee for the gross vehicle weight or gross combination
vehicle weight at which the vehicle or combination was weighed; and
(2) required to register the vehicle or combination at the higher
declared gross weight in accordance with the weight at the time of the
violation for the remainder of the registration period and to pay that fee.
B. Such registration shall not be construed to authorize the movement
of loads in violation of the state's size and weight laws.
"


New Mexico Motor Vehicle Laws

I'm not going to argue with you other than to say you are wrong. You have to dig into the regulations to figure out why, which I'm not inclined to do, but I have posted links to them on here before. It is not lawful to operate any vehicle in excess of its rated capacity in New Mexico and it violates at least two provisions of the motor vehicle code any time it occurs. If one is trailering while doing so, it is a third violation.

[Grit_dog]

Desertdog, the short completly objective answer to your specific question is no.
Regardless of whether you're a card carrying rvnet weight cop or a realist.

But they will help the rear capacity of the truck if you understand the limits and limiting factors.
By the way some react, even lying to prove their "point", you'd think the millions of sets of airbags on the market would all be recalled and the manufacturers all bankrupt and or in jail after being prosecuted by everyone from Joe RVer to the NHSTA!

[Grit_dog]

2112 wrote:
Actually, airbags subtract payload by the amount of the weight of the airbags and compressor. You are adding weight to the vehicle.

Set of bags weighs about as much as 2 gallons of milk and a case of beer. Compressor is like adding a seedless watermelon to the payload. Lol

[ShinerBock]

twodownzero wrote:

IdaD wrote:
I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.

In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.

Not according to the New Mexico motor vehicle code in the link below. It states in section 66-3-1.2 that a vehicles registration is based upon "declared" gross weight not rated gross weight. The same as Texas and many other states.

"66-3-1.2. REGISTRATION--DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--Except as
otherwise provided by law, the division shall register each truck, truck
tractor, road tractor and bus required to be registered under the
international registration plan or reciprocal agreements with other
jurisdictions for a declared gross weight not to exceed the legal limitation
established by this state. "


Also the fine is the same as well where you have to pay for the GVWR you got caught with for all the years you have owned the vehicle and you also have to register it with that GVWR from that moment on until you no longer own the vehicle.

"66-3-21. VEHICLE EXCEEDING DECLARED GROSS WEIGHT.--
A. Except as otherwise provided by law, a vehicle or combination
shall not be operated upon the public highways of this state when the gross
vehicle weight or gross combination vehicle weight exceeds the declared gross
weight. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be:
(1) assessed a penalty for the lapsed portion of the registration
period in an amount equal to the difference between the fee for the declared
gross weight and the fee for the gross vehicle weight or gross combination
vehicle weight at which the vehicle or combination was weighed; and
(2) required to register the vehicle or combination at the higher
declared gross weight in accordance with the weight at the time of the
violation for the remainder of the registration period and to pay that fee.
B. Such registration shall not be construed to authorize the movement
of loads in violation of the state's size and weight laws.
"


New Mexico Motor Vehicle Laws

[Lwiddis]

No, air bags don’t increase payload. However, I installed bags to correct an inch and a half sag when pulling my TT with the new Silverado.Work great as did the auto leveling on the 2015 Tahoe.

[twodownzero]

IdaD wrote:
I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.

In my state it is not legal to license a vehicle for more than its rated capacity nor is a driver's license valid for use on our roadways if the vehicle is overloaded. If you block out your GVWR on the sticker, it's likely that you won't be able to register your vehicle at all here. In other states I've lived, plates are issued for a certain number of pounds that hits certain cutoffs in the law, 8k, 12k, etc. Here, my truck is registered for its GVWR, 9900 pounds, and not a single pound more or less.

[drsteve]

You need a dually for that 5er.

[Me_Again]

DesertDogs wrote:
Does adding airbags to a pickup truck tow vehicle increase the payload capacity of the truck?

For example, take a pickup with 3500 lbs. of payload capacity. If one were to add air bags to such a pickup, could that realistically increase the payload capacity from 3500 lbs. to 4000 lbs.?

Also, does adding airbags improve ride quality in the truck?

We're thinking of going with a 2019 3/4 ton RAM or 1 ton RAM as our every day driver and also as a tow vehicle for a fairly short 5th wheel.

I'm trying to decide which would be the best route to follow when buying a truck that will serve mostly as a daily driver, with occasional use to tow a 5th wheel.

3/4 ton with air bags added?
1 ton without air bags?
1 ton with air bags added?

Or....???

"Considering Vanleigh Vilano 320 5th Wheel. Would want about 4000 lbs. payload capacity with the tow vehicle."

You are into the dually 1 ton arena.

Here is what they say about pin weight:
Hitch Weight : 2,600 ****
**** unloaded and based off of an average

Add a washer/dryer in the front closet and load it up and a SRW 3500 will be maxed out.

[IdaD]

I'm not aware of a state where the payload sticker means anything. Most of the time a 3/4 ton with properly rated bags or timbrens can carry a given load as well or better than the same model/year 3500. If the payload sticker is an issue for you, use a sharpie on it. What you really need to do is know what the law in your state says. Usually you can register your truck to carry or tow whatever you want.

[ShinerBock]

It will not increase the vehicles rated weight ratings or the registered weight rating. However, it will increase the carrying ability if the suspension is the limiting factor.

A friend of mine who had the same dilemma in his F250. He added F350 springs and track bars essentially making the truck identical to an F350 in the rear. Same axles, same brakes, same tires, same everything. Did it increase is rated weight? No. He would have had to send his truck to a final builder to get the sticker and GVWR re-rated which costs a lot of money. It did increase his actual carrying ability without squatting four inches when pulling his trailers. Although, here in Texas, you can register your truck for a higher GVWR so a 3/4 ton can legally carry what a 1 ton can.

Not saying that you should get a 3/4 ton for that trailer because I would get a 1 ton for that weight. Just answering the question.

[rhagfo]

MFL wrote:
While many 3/4 ton trucks can handle nearly the same load as a 1 ton SRW, by using after market devices to level the load, it is best to just get the 3500 to start with, if needed, when buying new. In your case, the FW you are considering, on your profile, you need the 3500.

Jerry

X2
36' 5er is not really short, and the one the OP is looking at has a GVWR of 16,000#, the only thing that will help you stick with a 3500 SRW is that this 5er has a payload of 3,600#.

320 GK Specs
GVWR : 16,000
Dry Weight : 12,400*
Cargo Carrying : 3,600
Hitch Weight : 2,600 (21% of dry)

Starting from dry weight if you only add 2,000# of stuff now the 5er's GVW is 14,400# X 21% = 3,024, I would expect the pin percentage to be more like 23% to 25% so up to 3,600# just for the 5er on the TV.
Best be looking at the 3500, and might even consider a DRW.