Am I making the right hybrid manufacturer decision?

[musgt91]

Hi,
My family is new to the rv world as we have always been tent campers. We have finally decided to make the plunge as we have a 3 yr old and a 1 yr old and need to not worry about the rain or overall weather conditions.

We are looking at the Rockwood Roo 235S and would be pulling it with a full size truck so pulling capacity isn't an issue. My question is, is this the right brand to choose out of all the brands available. We are looking for nice features so willing to spend a little extra. But there is only a one year warranty compared to Jayco who offers a 2 yr with a 5 yr tent coverage. Should we be looking for a different brand? We want something that is going to last and not fall apart.

Thanks

[hybrid_dw]

Ralph Cramden wrote:

parker.rowe wrote:
I'm not sure how the doors are designed on the new Roos, but my in laws had a Flagstaff Shamrock (same as a Roo) and never had any leakage issues. I believe it was a 2013.

Our Starcraft has a small rain gutter at the top of each bed opening. The doors already have seals and we haven't had any leakage issues. Only way I could see it leaking is if the canvas got closed in the seal...we always check ours.

Hybrid Bunk Door 101 according to Ralph.

There are two types.
* Forest River Design. Used on Rockwood Roo, Flagstaff Shamrock, and Palomino.
* Former Kinro, now Lippert, Secure Lock Bunk Door. Used by Jayco, Keystone, Dutchmen Aerolite/Coleman/Kodiak, KZ, Forest River Surveyor and Coachmen, and everyone else.

Ralph great info...

Parker, heres my Starcraft Antigua 2005 typical Bunk door with the rain gutter you noted. We get water in only when its setup open and comes through near the bottom corners of the frame/gasket. I think the PUGS will help divert that minor problem next time we camp in the rain.


Click For Full-Size Image.

[drenjoey]

donn0128 wrote:
Typical hybrids have many issues, from quality to build methods. If you have a full sized truck? What ever that means. Why not step up to a decent used fill hard side TT? Buying used you will find much more for less $$$ spent.

Weird how donn0128 made that comment and never came back to back it up !!!! Did he ever own an Hybrid before making these comments !! We are now on our third hybrid and just love them, and don't see the day where we'll go to something else !

[Chuck_S]

14 Seasons with our Roo 23SS. Decals by the door are looking a bit faded though. 🙂

-- Chuck

[Oasisbob]

Right brand? Rockwood sells alot of units. An evening spent here in the archives may answer better than I. Read about problems and how they were dealt with by Rockwood. We have owned our R Vision for 16 years and no real quality issues. Best of luck

[Ralph_Cramden]

magnusfide wrote:
Dutchman has some great hybrids

Dutchmen had great hybrids. Aerolite was one of the originators of the hybrid, if not the originator back in the 1980s, but starting around 2010 they went off the deep end quality wise, and after the debacle of the thermarest tents prior and their leaking issues, went from the #1 hybrid manufacturer to probably the last on the list. Around 2013 Thor transferred customer service for Dutchmen over to Keystone and what was actually very good and responsive support went to hell in a handbasket. They went from having the most models/floorplans in hybrids to a few. Aerolite/Kodiak/Coleman are all the same, built in the same plant on the same line with different decals and decor. Dutchmen is just a name and not what it formerly was. Management and support are under Keystone so its nothing more than a sign on a building in Indiana.

Under the Coleman Name plate they now only make one hybrid, the 1601EXP, The same as the Kodiak Branded 172E. Kodiak also offers the 179E, the 186E, and the 222ES. The Aerolite website shows no hybrid floorplans. Evidently Dutchmen/Keystone have consolidated hybrids under the Kodiak brand. At one time Aerolite had about a half a dozen or more hybrid floorplans.

Forest River offers 10 hybrid floorplans in the Roos/Shamrocks, 3 under the Surveyor brand, and currently the 4 floorplans shown on Coachmen's site are "dealer stock only". Coachmen may be getting out of hybrids. They do show 1, the 15X under the Apex brand.

Jayco has about 9 floo rplans if you count the rear slides, KZ has maybe half a dozen hybrids scattered throughout their 8 brands, Keystone only has 2 hybrid floorplans that are clones between the Bullet and Passport Brands.

Dutchmen / Aerolite is seemingly out of the picture.

All of that said the 2011 Aerolite 185E hybrid we had for 3 seasons, was the best built and most problem free camper we have ever owned.

[magnusfide]

Dutchman has some great hybrids (they call them Expandables).
Dutchmen Expandables

Casitas aren't expandable but they are very compact travel trailers with a decent reputation. Their largest is only 17 feet and has bunk beds and twins.
Casitas

TrailManors are reputable and they expand upwards instead of outwards. The upper hard side lowers onto the hard side base when you're in pulling mode.
TrailManors

[mdcamping]

bikendan wrote:

mdcamping wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
However, like a tent, or a pop-up, you still have to deal with wet ends that get folded up. Like a pop-up, it has to be opened up and dried out when you get home.

Regardless whether my tent ends get wet or not on my Hybrid, I open them up and wash them after evey trip. Always getting dirt, bird s**t or something to clean up.

Mike

get a set of PUGs. then you won't have to wash the canvas, just the PUGs. much easier.

I wash the whole trailer anyway after every trip, so if I were to buy Pugs it would probably be for the insulating they provide.

Mike

[parker_rowe]

Ralph Cramden wrote:


Hybrid Bunk Door 101 according to Ralph.

Great post!

Yep, we have the second design. Seems to work pretty well so far. We'll keep an eye on the points you mentioned.

The sharp corners on the inlaws old Roo always made me nervous walking around the beds.
Ours has the rounded corners and the tent flaps flip down over the door edge when deployed. Seem like a better design for lots of reasons.

Never gave a though to the differences in sealing between the two before this thread though.

[Ralph_Cramden]

parker.rowe wrote:
I'm not sure how the doors are designed on the new Roos, but my in laws had a Flagstaff Shamrock (same as a Roo) and never had any leakage issues. I believe it was a 2013.

Our Starcraft has a small rain gutter at the top of each bed opening. The doors already have seals and we haven't had any leakage issues. Only way I could see it leaking is if the canvas got closed in the seal...we always check ours.

Hybrid Bunk Door 101 according to Ralph.

There are two types.
* Forest River Design. Used on Rockwood Roo, Flagstaff Shamrock, and Palomino.
* Former Kinro, now Lippert, Secure Lock Bunk Door. Used by Jayco, Keystone, Dutchmen Aerolite/Coleman/Kodiak, KZ, Forest River Surveyor and Coachmen, and everyone else.

With the Forest River design they use a two piece hinge, riveted together, and it will fail eventually, its just a matter of time. If they leak through the seals or not is very much determined by if they were installed correctly at the factory, especially so at the top corners as they are a three piece and butt together at the top. Adding a water deflector above the front door is never a bad idea. Our 17 Roo has not leaked but I did redo one of the seals that I would not accept at the PDI and made the dealer get me the new material. I was not about to trust his flunkies to do it right.

Here is a good example of what Forest River has been known to do to seals when building the rig, this is clear silicone that some moron at the factory put on the door flange after sealing the tent corner, then closed the bunk door, and what it does to the seal when opened, found at the PDI.






BTW, that top seal should of extended at least 3/8" past the side seal.

A rain deflector I had bent out of 18 gauge brake metal, it does not need to be a gutter but simply extend beyond the face of the door with a drip edge so water coming down the front curl does not run into the seal channel.



The Kinro / LCI door has a one piece seal, radius top corners, and the hinge does not use rivits. It's two pieces of extrusion that lock together as a hinge. A much better design and I wish I had the LCI doors on our Rockwood Roo. They are not prone however to problems. If the seal was not originally installed correctly is one, and another is this caulk joing shown below is prone to splitting open. Let that happen and it won't take long before you need a new door. The Kinro / LCI has at least 6 revisions I am aware of since 2008, most having to do with the hinge design and tent attachment method. The J lock molding used to secure the tent can also split in half.

Kinro/LCI door.





2011 Aerolite and 2013 Keystone With LCI doors / 17 Rockwood.

[bikendan]

mdcamping wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
However, like a tent, or a pop-up, you still have to deal with wet ends that get folded up. Like a pop-up, it has to be opened up and dried out when you get home.

Regardless whether my tent ends get wet or not on my Hybrid, I open them up and wash them after evey trip. Always getting dirt, bird s**t or something to clean up.

Mike

get a set of PUGs. then you won't have to wash the canvas, just the PUGs. much easier.

[drenjoey]

Just love what Chuck and parker.rowe wrote.......Totally agree with them.
We are on our third hybrid and love it.
We lost our first one when a pine tree fell on it.......oh well ! the insurance gave me more then what I paid for!
We sold the second one... we thought we were gonna be seasonal but I'm sure you know hybrid is not the best camper if you be seasonal.......and finally our plans changed! Good chance, we sold the second one the price we paid for it two years earlier.
So........we bought that third one......Goes to show how much we love hybrids !

Dre

[mdcamping]

DutchmenSport wrote:
However, like a tent, or a pop-up, you still have to deal with wet ends that get folded up. Like a pop-up, it has to be opened up and dried out when you get home.

Regardless whether my tent ends get wet or not on my Hybrid, I open them up and wash them after evey trip. Always getting dirt, bird s**t or something to clean up.

Mike

[parker_rowe]

I'm not sure how the doors are designed on the new Roos, but my in laws had a Flagstaff Shamrock (same as a Roo) and never had any leakage issues. I believe it was a 2013.

Our Starcraft has a small rain gutter at the top of each bed opening. The doors already have seals and we haven't had any leakage issues. Only way I could see it leaking is if the canvas got closed in the seal...we always check ours.

[musgt91]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. We had our first trip out to two dealers. We were amazed by the lack of quality in cabinet material and overall look. We were impressed by the look and feel of the Roo hybrid. I have been reading the forums for how to seal the bunk ends and installing a rain guard over each of the bunk ends.

Thanks everyone!!

[parker_rowe]

Chuck_S wrote:
For us camping is sleeping in a tent or tent trailer for which a hybrid qualifies with the added niceties of a nice galley, and bathroom. Different strokes for different folks: my wife refuses to even consider a hard-sided "RV." We have a camper. 🙂

Sleeping under canvas remains paramount for us. Yeah there are compromises including drying the tentage if you have to close up with it's wet. But that's really all there is. Ya gotta make choices. Temperate weather with all the screens open is wonderful.

14 camping seasons in the same 2006 Roo 23SS with just minimal preventive maintenance and tiny repairs. 4 camping seasons prior that in a Coleman Bayside popup which was only replaced because we ran out of room inside. My wife and daughter used every cubic foot of space for their "stuff" and I literally had to keep mine in the truck. We plan to get another 14 seasons out of the Roo.

Because of their complexity popups and hybrids are often more expensive than "sleep in a box" trailers so they're not necessarily stepping stones to a RV.

-- Chuck

Glad we aren't the only ones. These are the EXACT reasons we went with a hybrid.

We started in the "family" pop-up, a 1993 Coleman Seneca that my mother-in-law bought new. My wife grew up camping with it.

We decided we wanted a bathroom to avoid midnight bathhouse runs with kids, and the option to turn on the AC if it got hot (and our own camper so we wouldn't be fixing things other people broke).

But we didn't want to give up the open feel of the popup, and call us crazy but we like a good rainstorm in canvas tent beds. So we got a hybrid, and don't regret it.

BTW, that 25 year old Coleman popup is still kicking. My brother-in-law camps in it now.