Another Golf Cart Battery Question

[boulderado]

I am getting ready to replace the original battery in our 2018 Keystone Cougar 24SABWE TT. I have decided to go with two of the Duracell Golf Cart GC2 batteries, $97 each at our local Sam's Club, plus core charge, I am sure. I ordered a new box from Amazon that will fit two of these.

Our trailer has a WFCO converter, model number WF8955. According to the specs it has automatic three-stage charging with output voltage modes of 13.2 VDC range “float” mode, 13.6 VDC range “absorption” mode, and a 14.4 VDC range “bulk” charge mode. Anything to be aware of with this type of converter and my proposed battery configuration? Also, any suggestions on which cable to purchase for connected the batteries in series? I want something solid.

The inside 'control panel' has indicators that shows battery status with just simple lights (E, 1/4, 1/2 etc). This is obviously pretty useless. Any suggestions on an easy fix to add a battery monitor of some sorts without having to do major rewiring? My handyman, who works as a small airplane mechanic, will be helping me with this so I won't burn the trailer to the ground.

As always, super-thankful for any and all input.

[philh]

I replaced WFCO POS with a charger from Best converter.

My new 5th wheel has two GC2 wet acid batteries. I'm upgrading to lithium batteries. Expensive yes, but finally jumping in with both feet 🙂

[StirCrazy]

boulderado wrote:
You guys have convinced me that it is time to ditch the WFCO converter. It looks like it comes down to these two contenders. The PowerMax is about $100 less than the PD one. Any reason to spring for the extra $100 for the PD? I will be using this with two Duracell GC2 batteries (already purchased, ready to install).

PowerMax: https://www.amazon.com/PowerMax-PM4-55A-Converter-Battery/dp/B01ER3LJSM/ref=sr_1_5_mod_primary_new

Progressive Dynamics: https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD4655V-Inteli-Power-Converter/dp/B002OR4242

for 100 bucks go with the PD. it is pretty much the industry standard for high quality and functionality. with the built in charge wizzard and the ability to put it into boost any time you want, its a much better setup.

[opnspaces]

I just went through similar decisions about two months ago and decided on the powermax. Here's a link to my post.
Link

My thoughts and reasons on why I went the way I did.

• I went with the Powermax because it was way cheaper than a PD
• The Powermax charges at 14.6/13.6/13.2
• It can manually be boosted to 16v for equalizing
• I went with portable to not mess with my current load center
• I also use it as a kick butt standalone battery charger in the garage when I'm not out camping
• I went 45 amps as one vendor said many people with 2000 watt generators are dissatisfaction with the 55amp and above chargers and want an exchange/refund
• And I'm serious when I say because Powermax was recommended by BFL13 and I respect his posts

Before my Honda EU2000i would barely come above idle when charging the batteries in the morning. With my new Powermax the generator has to rev up quite a bit to provide the necessary power.

Here's a link to the converter/charger that I bought Link

For wiring I just cut the ends off an old set of battery jumper cables that I was about to trash and they are now mounted to the charger.

So far I have to say I'm very impressed and happy with my purchase.

[Huntindog]

boulderado wrote:
You guys have convinced me that it is time to ditch the WFCO converter. It looks like it comes down to these two contenders. The PowerMax is about $100 less than the PD one. Any reason to spring for the extra $100 for the PD? I will be using this with two Duracell GC2 batteries (already purchased, ready to install).

PowerMax: https://www.amazon.com/PowerMax-PM4-55A-Converter-Battery/dp/B01ER3LJSM/ref=sr_1_5_mod_primary_new

Progressive Dynamics: https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD4655V-Inteli-Power-Converter/dp/B002OR4242

I have owned both. The powermax is also sold under the boondocker name at Best converters. I bought one to replace the WFCO on my previous TT. It works well, but is not as refined as the PDs.
It would pause charging for a moment when it changed modes. Not a big deal, as it let you know by the lights dimming when it happened. Actually kind of a good thing after the WFCO. It lasted about 8 years of very heavy use. At that point I was getting ready to sell that TT, so I reinstalled the WFCO. I have had several PDs. They just work. There is no sign of them switching modes at all...But they do, every time I have checked it. Just more refined than the Boondocker is all.

[boulderado]

You guys have convinced me that it is time to ditch the WFCO converter. It looks like it comes down to these two contenders. The PowerMax is about $100 less than the PD one. Any reason to spring for the extra $100 for the PD? I will be using this with two Duracell GC2 batteries (already purchased, ready to install).

PowerMax: https://www.amazon.com/PowerMax-PM4-55A-Converter-Battery/dp/B01ER3LJSM/ref=sr_1_5_mod_primary_new

Progressive Dynamics: https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-Dynamics-PD4655V-Inteli-Power-Converter/dp/B002OR4242

[Vintage465]

I think if you're planning to be plugged in more regularly than not you may want to ditch the WFCO. "I think", if you're plugged in constantly and the converter/charger can never actually get the batteries to 100%, then it is actually slowly cooking them. This is what I think....some wise person on this forum can chime in a correct if necessary. I have the WFCO in my CreekSide but we are almost never plugged in. And If we are plugged in, it'd only be for a couple days. In general my WFCO just hangs in the breeze while my solar is completely responsible for caring for the batteries.

[StirCrazy]

boulderado wrote:
I decided to reach out to WFCO to get there take. For what it's worth, here is there reply:

The charge algorithm is automated, but it is a 3 stage charger.
Secondarily, the converter does not pump amperage into the battery, but rather the battery draws from the converter. So, the charge rate is constantly variable, based on what the battery or 12v loads require. There is no issue using this converter with golf cart batteries.

I see there is a PowerMax direct replacement for the WFCO 8955, running about $140 on Amazon. I guess that might be worth it based on feedback from the forum.

did you expect anything different 😉

for what its worth I have had many a WFCO cook batteries over the years, my last 4 units never left the lot with out that being torn out and replaces with quality. WFCO will brag there the most used converter in the market but thats because there the cheepest option that will get the job done for the manufactures, not because there the best.

Steve

[ktmrfs]

boulderado wrote:
I decided to reach out to WFCO to get there take. For what it's worth, here is there reply:

The charge algorithm is automated, but it is a 3 stage charger.
Secondarily, the converter does not pump amperage into the battery, but rather the battery draws from the converter. So, the charge rate is constantly variable, based on what the battery or 12v loads require. There is no issue using this converter with golf cart batteries.

I see there is a PowerMax direct replacement for the WFCO 8955, running about $140 on Amazon. I guess that might be worth it based on feedback from the forum.

what they don't tell you is HOW the charger determines if it should go into bulk mode charging. Here is what it does
a) stuffs max current into the battery
b) THEN looks at the voltage AT THE WFCO output, not the battery terminals.
C) if that voltage is below the threshold it stays in bulk mode.

The problem is that even with short cables once the battery sees the 45A or so battery voltage + cable drop is almost always guaranteed to have the charger think the battery is charged enough to set the voltage to around 13.6-13.8 which won't give you more than about 15A or so even on a pretty deeply discharged battery.

PD and others FIRST look at the battery terminal voltage, if it is below the threshold it goes to bulk mode charging and stays there till battery voltage rises enough.

And, you can always set the PD to go into bulk mode charging regardless of battery state of charge to kick the charger into fast charging mode.

WFCO doesn't have this option.

They are correct, you can use the WFCO with GC2 batteries and any FLA battery. Problem is few if any folks have been able to get it into bulk charging mode, and get a battery fully charged.

And a GC2 battery typically has higher internal resistance than a 12V "marine" battery. That also means terminal voltage with high current input is higher than with a typical 12V, even more likely not to go to bulk charging mode.

At one time I did an experiment with the WFCO I took out of my trailer.
A pair of almost new GC2's I had discharged to below 50%
2ft of #4 welding cable to the WFCO (about the largest diameter wire you can use with the WFCO)
plugged in the WFCO to see what it would do. 45A for a few minutes, then voltage dropped to 13.8 and 15A, so it went into bulk mode for only a few minutes. And at 15A it would take about 8 hours to get anywhere near full charge.
Same setup with a PD60A charger but with about 10ft of #4 and it went to 50A for over and hour before it started to taper and the batteries were at 90% in less than 2 hours.

[Grit_dog]

I'll second the experience with WFCO.
Just got a camper last year with one. Didn't think much of it, but seemed like our battery capacity s ucked. Even with new batteries....
Figured maybe much bigger camper and not used to it, but, yeah, they're not great.
Haven't replaced it yet as we don't use it alot, but it's annoying enough that if I have time, it's going to get a PD converter.

Nothing to do with OP's batteries or nothing affecting that choice. 2 6V are best bang for the buck.

[boulderado]

I decided to reach out to WFCO to get there take. For what it's worth, here is there reply:

The charge algorithm is automated, but it is a 3 stage charger.
Secondarily, the converter does not pump amperage into the battery, but rather the battery draws from the converter. So, the charge rate is constantly variable, based on what the battery or 12v loads require. There is no issue using this converter with golf cart batteries.

I see there is a PowerMax direct replacement for the WFCO 8955, running about $140 on Amazon. I guess that might be worth it based on feedback from the forum.

[ktmrfs]

good way to have GC2 (or any other FLA deep discharge battery) have a very short life is to keep the WFCO. It seldom will go above 13.6-13.8V which means the battery will NEVER reach full charge or ever equalize. And max charging current with 13.8V is in the 10-15A range, takes forever to get anywhere near full charge

For people who only use electric hookups, the WFCO is probably ok. For anyone who does any boondocking the WFCO is a BAD BAD charger.

Luckily PD and others make drop in replacement chargers that really will fully charge the battery in decent time with 45-60A peak charge current and equalize properly.

[boulderado]

jdc1 wrote:
Is there a 12V receptacle somewhere in the trailer? Use this:
https://www.amazon.com/Palumma-Charger-Adapter-Display-Battery/dp/B0773BYS6P/ref=sr_1_42?crid=ZXEK6N7P50N0&keywords=male+12v+outlet+monitor&qid=1649114802&sprefix=male+12v+outlet+moniter%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-42

Yep, there is cigarette lighter outlet behind next to the TV. Thanks for the advice.

[jdc1]

Is there a 12V receptacle somewhere in the trailer? Use this:
https://www.amazon.com/Palumma-Charger-Adapter-Display-Battery/dp/B0773BYS6P/ref=sr_1_42?crid=ZXEK6N7P50N0&keywords=male+12v+outlet+monitor&qid=1649114802&sprefix=male+12v+outlet+moniter%2Caps%2C168&sr=8-42

[theoldwizard1]

boulderado wrote:
Also, any suggestions on which cable to purchase for connected the batteries in series? I want something solid.

Cable size depends on the load. Typically an inverter is you biggest load, but you did not mention one. I would go with nothing smaller than what I currently installed.

There a folks on eBay that will make custom cables to your specs. Wire size and length, insulation color, as well as the connector size/style.

A good shunt and battery monitor (like one from Victron) is always valuable.