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Arctic Fox 990 on SRW in the Snow?

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Hi All,

New member here, excited to be joining your ranks. Less exciting is the prospect of wrecking my new truck and TC.

I have the truck (2017 F-350, CC, SRW, 6.7l, FX4), but not the TC. Reason being the safety factor.

I understand that AF990's weight is roughly 4k lbs. I'll never be carrying more than 1 day of water or LPG. Also opting not to get AC, Fox landing, solar, or any side awnings. I don't need any of the above, and all would save some weight (although I've heard carrying a bit more water can improve handling).

I'll do whatever I need to do on the truck (independent air bags at minimum). I plan on running Nokian LT2 studs (e-rated, and roughly 3600lb per tire). I don't care if they're destined to last only 15k miles, as I feel there's no safer way to transport my family in winter conditions.

Speaking of that, this camper will be used 99% of the time to overnight up on the mountain (5400ft climb from my house). I will have to make the drive every weekend, all winter, regardless of conditions (the first 2/3rds is essentially never snowy, and the last 3rd is highly variable (Mt. Hood, OR).

All of the above brings me to my hang-up. I know I could put everything together in such a way that I stay under my 11,500 GVWR, but given the weight of the TC, it wouldn't be by much. I wonder if I'm going to regret not leaving myself more overhead in terms of payload.

Ultimately, I know I can always slow down enough to make the trip safely, but I don't want to be "that guy" on the road who is holding everyone else up in single Lane sections.

As there will frequently be 2 adults and an almost-teenage man child camping, and since one of those adults is my wife, my impression from reading these forums is that a slide is almost a necessity. Would you agree?


If so, I could also consider a Lance 995 to save several hundred lbs (just felt like the AF had the edge in build quality, and with all the extra weight, it better!). I think I could even save a few lbs in a Host (but not a few dollars).

If not, that would bring Northern Lite into the running, which seems to make a lot of sense as an exclusive winter camper where weight is also a factor (especially the sportsman).

I'm sure if you've made it this far, you get the idea. Thanks in advance for any wisdom you can offer. I look forward to being a part of this community.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs
101 REPLIES 101

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Thank you Bob. Bigfoot is on the short list as well. Fortunately, our local-ish dealer has Bigfoot, NL, Northwood, Cirrus, and ALP.

I think the shortlist is:

NL 9-6
Cirrus 920
Bigfoot 1500
AF 865
Wolf Creek 850

I went to my Lance dealer a couple times, and am kinda bummed. I know their 850 would work very well, and a stripped-down 995 might come close, depending on my axle weights (which I'm getting this week), but I was kinda surprised at the finish work and attention to detail. I don't know if it's a Lance issue or a dealer issue. Wouldn't really care if it was a well-used camper, but it was sort of off-putting to see on the new stuff.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

bigfootgrey
Explorer
Explorer
Sliding-into-home wrote:
I realize it's a red herring, best most of us can tell. That's why I talked to an attorney friend who makes a good living fighting insurance companies over car crashes, etc. Half of his answer was as expected, the other half was a surprise :

"There are a lot of guys on death row because they were over their GVWR tire rating. I have never heard of anyone getting sued because they were over their rating."

I don't know if he was being hyperbolic about death row, but he's a good enough friend that I have no reason to doubt the underlying message.

Looking up GVWR in Oregon statutes suggests one is subject to civil action, whatever that means. I would imagine my friend's warning had to do with accidents where the driver of the overloaded rig was at fault and people died.

Either way, even if the penalty isn't as clear, the letter of the law in my state is fairly clear. It's obviously some form of no-no, and I'm not the kind of person who knowingly breaks the law.

All signs point to NL sportsman. Maybe Bigfoot? If it's gonna be a non-slide, I like the idea of clamshell fiberglass design.

On that note, does anyone know how accurate NL's literature was roughly 10-15 years ago? I've seen some used Ten 2000's from that era that claim 2400 dry, and that seems low compared to what they're running these days. I'd love to have the generator compartment, but I don't want to drive halfway across the country to get a good deal on one only to find out it's too heavy.


Check out Bigfootโ€™s 1500 series camper. No basement and 1โ€ of insulation but the weight is 2245. Might be a option to consider

Bob
2011 Ford F-350 PSD SC DRW
2008 Bigfoot 25C-10.4E
Firestone airbags - torklift stable-loads,fastguns,Talons Rancho rs 9000XLโ€™s.

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
I'm thinking since I'm only going to let my son have an x-ray box in the camper that we will find a way to pass the evening hours. Plus there's night skiing at our mountain until 9pm. Good info!
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
You are going to have to compromise on one thing or the other.. I carried the TC in my signature for 8 1/2 years on my SRW. Eventually the SRW was too large to park at work when I changed jobs. I started with a SuperCab 8ft. SRW because that was the biggest that would fit at work.

Iโ€™m finding my 9 1/2 just barely big enough now that I have two dogs.

There are plenty of DRW vs SRW threads in the archives. Some real reasons why the DRW wonโ€™t work for daily drivers. I can go through some drivethroughs. :). Seriously, I donโ€™t live for drivethroughs so thatโ€™s a tolerable issue. I would park at the end of the parking lot any way, so the DRW isnโ€™t an issue.

TCs are best when you are outside most of the time. There are a lot of dark hours on the mountain though at ski areas.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Believe me, I considered this after starting this thread. Thing is, I know I can make a smaller camper work just fine for my purposes. Heck, all I ever really wanted before I upgraded my truck was a place to cook lunch when it was blowing snow too hard to tail-gate and a warm-ish place to sleep at night.

But I don't know if I can live with an unloaded dually as a daily driver for the other 8 months. Maybe I could? I'd never researched or considered it. No idea of the pros and cons apart from tire cost (negligible in the grand scheme), size (obvious), and handling characteristics of an unloaded bed.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
Seems like youโ€™d be better off trading for a DRW and get the TC you want. Trading a truck is going to be much easier than trading a TC and I think youโ€™ll lose less money.

After you get the DRW, look for a used 11 1/2 multi slided TC with dry bath to dry your clothes etc and be done.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Now, even though that law is out of the context that youโ€™re worried about , why would you be ok with basically a DOT generic axle weight law and not be worried about the mfgs axle rating when you are concerned with the mfgs gvw?

Youโ€™re confusing issues and not really sure what your concerns are other than not wanting to be able to get sued if you have a bad day, when you could easily get sued for the same thing โ€œifโ€ anything actually went that way.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
I think the law actually has the parentheses in the wrong place. Should read "(but not to exceed)" instead of "(but not to exceed 600 pounds)." All other documentation suggests it is as I wrote:

1. sidewall rating (presumably multiplied by the number of tires)
OR
2. 600lbs x total width of tires on that axle

Lots more practical application here: http://library.state.or.us/repository/2006/200611241001055/index.pdf

But in any event, I've taken us into the weeds with this, especially considering we're only talking about one state's laws. In any event, multiplying a 10-ply tire width for the average 1-ton (11-12 inches?) by 600, means we're clearly still looking at the tire's sidewall rating anyway.

I would be comfortable defending in court a fully loaded CAT scale measurement of my rear axle subtracted from the sum of my rear axle's sidewall ratings based on the wording of this law. This also assumes being under the total GVWR, 11,500 in my case.

In any event, not going to happen with a AF 990--not on a fully-loaded SRW anyway. So I'm either going to order a Wolf 850 to save some money or splurge on a NL 9'6. Neither have generator compartments. Not thrilled about that. Any Cirrus owners out there?! I think that back bumper will make my rig just a tad too long.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

wnjj
Explorer II
Explorer II
Sliding-into-home wrote:
Finally found the applicable law for Oregon. Long story short, and as many have suggested/surmised, it's all about tires and axle weight.

Rather than clutter up the thread, the relevant laws are 818.020 and its reference to 818.10, if anyone wants to look them up.

synopsis: lesser of sidewall weigh rating or 600lbs multiplied by the total width of tires (in inches) on the axle = maximum weight on that axle.

I can't find any other reference to actual laws/penalties, especially any that pertain to the tire and loading sticker. I'd be interested in seeing those though, if anyone knows of anything.

Best I can tell, Oregon's legalese is primarily concerned with damage to roads and the repercussion is a fine that would be minimal for the average TC owner, not to mention highly unlikely.

I don't read that statute the same way. It says exactly this:

ORS 818.010 table 1 wrote:
The manufacturerโ€™s side wall tire rating (but not to exceed 600 pounds) X the sum of the tire widths, in inches, of the wheels of the axle or tandem axles = maximum allowable weight.

It says it's the sidewall rating multiplied by total tire tread width for that axle. In that context, the 3-4k lb "max load" rating of a tire we're all familiar with doesn't make any sense. Does anyone know if commercial tires (which this law is mostly about) are rated differently with a "per-inch" spec?

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Finally found the applicable law for Oregon. Long story short, and as many have suggested/surmised, it's all about tires and axle weight.

Rather than clutter up the thread, the relevant laws are 818.020 and its reference to 818.10, if anyone wants to look them up.

synopsis: lesser of sidewall weigh rating or 600lbs multiplied by the total width of tires (in inches) on the axle = maximum weight on that axle.

I can't find any other reference to actual laws/penalties, especially any that pertain to the tire and loading sticker. I'd be interested in seeing those though, if anyone knows of anything.

Best I can tell, Oregon's legalese is primarily concerned with damage to roads and the repercussion is a fine that would be minimal for the average TC owner, not to mention highly unlikely.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

wnjj
Explorer II
Explorer II
Sliding-into-home wrote:
Jeez... For a guy who dishes out far more sarcasm than he receives, my meter must have been way off yesterday. I just checked with him, and indeed, he was messing with me.

I wish that made my decision easier as opposed to cloudier. I guess I need to dig back into the state statutes. As far as WA is concerned, it looks like TIRES are the main deciding factor. I'll see if I can find the snippet I found yesterday for OR.


Let me know if you find anything. The only things I ever found in ORS involving GVWR is that 26001 lbs and up is commercial and other classifications like for chain laws. Vehicle weights are only concerned with 600 lbs per inch of tread witdth which wonโ€™t even come close on a truck camper. Lastly, the standard you do have to meet is for braking: 20 mph to 0 within 35 feet (https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/815.125).

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Dude, seriously, youโ€™re overthinking this. If youโ€™re that concerned about this and are actually hauling a camper many weekends a year, get a dually, sleep well at night and have fun camping.
And before the โ€œduallys s uck in the snowโ€ folks chime in....no, they donโ€™t. Especially if theyโ€™re 4wd and have a camper in thebed.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
Jeez... For a guy who dishes out far more sarcasm than he receives, my meter must have been way off yesterday. I just checked with him, and indeed, he was messing with me.

I wish that made my decision easier as opposed to cloudier. I guess I need to dig back into the state statutes. As far as WA is concerned, it looks like TIRES are the main deciding factor. I'll see if I can find the snippet I found yesterday for OR.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Sliding-into-ho
Explorer
Explorer
jimh425 wrote:
Feel free to post just one example of someone being on death row because they were over GVWR. I think you just missed his humor, or he's not very good.

I believe Nothern Lite weights in brochure are without options.


He's definitely very good, so if anything, I just missed the point. I will ask him for clarification. I am just a humble seeker of knowledge in this endeavor and have no agenda other than to not break any laws or kill anyone.

I've never been in an at-fault accident--nor do I plan to be. But heaven forbid it happens and someone dies. Perhaps the more relevant issue here would be an accident where fault was questionable, and being overloaded on GVWR tipped the scales of culpability.
2017 F-350, CC/LB/SRW
2018 Northern Lite 9-6 SE
Upper StableLoads (for now)
Nokian LT2 Studs

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Still not sure if the OP is leaning weight cops or common sense.
One things for sure. This thread just nuked like the rest of them.....
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold