can't get the gvwr math to work

[tianna_veum]

I want to buy a Bigfoot 25C9.4SB and a short bed srw crew cab diesel to match. Everything I read says "gvwr gvwr gvwr - never violate your trucks gvwr!".

ok.

So, Bigfoot says their camper is 3K pounds "dry" but truck camper magazine says plan for 4K pounds to account for water, propanne and "gear".

Ford tells me a f350 short bed srw crew cab diesel has a max payload of 3.5K pounds with "a 150 pound passenger at each avaiable seating position".

Since I'm the only passenger, I figure the truck's max payload is probably closer to 4K pounds.

Is this to close? 4k camper on a 4k capable truck?

If so, then I can go for a gas engine instead of the diesel which buys me about 500 pounds. But, I would prefer diesel over gas.

Would appreciate advice.

tianna

[wnjj]

ardvark wrote:
This weight things is a constant on all the truck camper forums. Am I the only one who thinks there is not reason other than to mislead that truck camper manufacturers don't post wet weights including the options they install?

Some manufacturers do/did post all of the weights. Mine did and they were pretty accurate from what I can tell.

I have heard of at least one manufacturer (don't remember which) who weighed each unit as it left the factory.

One reason I can think of why they don't is then people will nit-pick over every pound that doesn't match up. There's probably variability in the weight of every one built, even with the same options. There's a measurable amount of weight just in screws and adhesives. Perhaps they change brands of microwave or some other component and now have to update the numbers.

They should be able to a least put 'typical' numbers for most things.

[adamis]

ardvark wrote:
This weight things is a constant on all the truck camper forums. Am I the only one who thinks there is not reason other than to mislead that truck camper manufacturers don't post wet weights including the options they install?

Not necessarily... Technology is changing constantly and with that, some of the items that we count in for weight today may not play a factor in a few years. The biggest example are batteries and generators. My Camper has 180 lbs of batteries and 115lbs of generator. That's nearly 300 lbs of weight I'll eventually take out when I pull the trigger on one or two LiFiPo batteries at ~25lbs each. Even water tanks may not be critical in the future as there are methods to pull water from the air that are getting more and more energy effective via the use of nano-materials. In 2001 when my Bigfoot was built the idea of these new technologies for a camper would have been absurdly expensive to laughable. 18 years later, they are still expensive but not laughable. Who knows what technology will change in the next 18 years.

Getting back to the weights of the camper, though it is misleading if you are not in the know, it isn't necessarily incorrect for what is important and that is the actual weight of the shelter itself. Those items that can be changed over time or just removed all together (genset) probably should not be included in the base weight but buyers need to educate themselves so they understand what is happening.

[ardvark]

This weight things is a constant on all the truck camper forums. Am I the only one who thinks there is not reason other than to mislead that truck camper manufacturers don't post wet weights including the options they install?

[TxGearhead]

That Bigfoot will be close to 4300-4400# ready for the road and full tank of water.
I'm on my 4th truck in 8? years for pulling RV's around. In January I loaded my Bigfoot heavy for a trip to Tulsa and then a fishing trip to Broken Bow. I stopped on the way up to weigh it. I was draining water out at the truck stop to get somewaht close to my rear axle and tire weight limits. Never miind payload and GVWR. As soon as I got back home I ordered a Ram dually. My payload with the Ram 3500 SRW was 4018#, dually is 5406#. My previous 2014? F350 CC LWB diesel 4x4 had a payload of 3267#.
If you haven't already, read the recent Bigfoot review on truckcampermagazine.com.
Don't do like me.

[mbloof]

Ahh, a surely hotly debated topic. While many would seemingly require 45xx or even 55xx rigs to haul around the enormous modern day campers we bought most are able to live with 25xx or 35xx trucks. (some with modifications)

My own story involves a '97 F250HD rated at 8800Lbs and usually rolling 12-13,000Lbs across the scales loaded. The '97 has/had a rock stiff suspension. I had upgraded it with airbags and 19.5" 265/70's (never really used the air bags) and it rode/drove well. The old 5.8L was a bit weak going over hills and the fuel economy was horrible.

Fast forward to 2017 and after looking for +2yrs for a similar outfitted truck in a current model year (everyone around me sells Crew Cab models these days) I found a new F250 rated at 10,000Lbs. Considering it is carrying the same load as the old '97 truck (a NL 9.6QSE, very similar to the BF but in a long bed format) the new truck's wheels/tires got swapped for the higher rated 19.5"ers and air bags added so I can level the load.

As others have mentioned, you might have a different "comfort level" than I do and your options boil down to ether: getting lighter camper, getting bigger truck, going with a 5th wheel or travel trailer or sticking with the truck/camper match you decided on with some modifications (or not) to your truck.

Mark.

[Grit_dog]

Kayteg1 wrote:
You are confusing government taxation with real math.
We have a million (maybe more) topics about what taxes you pay v/s what are the vehicle real capabilities.

In CA that may very well be the case with licensing.
In the rest of the country that is not commiefornia, get the tags that the state puts on a pickup truck and load the camper up. The only truck camper cops are on this website.

Regarding actual capabilities, couldn’t be more spot on. OP, read the multitude of threads on the exact same, hotly debated , subject and then make your own determination based on the vehicle and your knowledge and confidence level.

[3_tons]

BTW, A sage counterpoint, as others have hinted (I’ve owned both) the ideal camper carrier would be a DRW to avoid any unforeseen variables (white knuckle camper weights, tire weights, etc), while handling is greatly improved...When it comes to hard side truck campers, understand there is no such thing as overkill, I would be much more concerned with minimalism JMHO

3 tons

[3_tons]

Manufacturers typically underestimate a campers weight by not including battery weight(s) (about 62# per), LPG weight, and option weight (including electric jacks)... Doing so sells more campers...Having said that, with the truck and camper you are describing should work fine with only the addition of a rear helper spring or air bag.....If starting out fresh, why not go with a long bed which would provide you more options and space?

[bighatnohorse]

tianna.veum wrote:


Ford tells me a f350 short bed srw crew cab diesel has a max payload of 3.5K pounds with "a 150 pound passenger at each avaiable seating position".

Since I'm the only passenger, I figure the truck's max payload is probably closer to 4K pounds.

Is this to close? 4k camper on a 4k capable truck?

This is true and has been true for over ten years. (Based on Ford's published literature.)

[jimh406]

Your math is fine. The TC manufacturers simply created TCs that weigh too much. 🙂

If you plan to have a SRW and 4K camper, you’ll likely need to upgrade wheels/tires to 19.5s. It would be even better to go DRW if you can get by with one. Besides being dangerous, blowouts can do a lot of damage.

I went the route of 19.5s and Rancho 9000s with SRW when I had to have a SRW for a daily driver. I actually made a 1000 mile trip without the 19.5s as well. I watched closely how much I carried and how little water I carried as well. My current DRW makes that a thing of the past. I also went with a SC in the SRW truck to move the weight as close as possible to the front wheels. It was ok, but obviously not as good as the F450.

The other option is to go to a lighter TC or go with a TT.

[JimK-NY]

I did all the nonsense of trying to estimate the amount of gear I carried. I can tell you and others will confirm, you will grossly underestimate the weight you add to the base camper weight.

Trying to travel with empty tanks is also not something I would recommend. There are lots of areas where it can be difficult to get water or propane refills.

[adamis]

1000lbs for Water and Gear is all dependent on yourself and camping style. The easiest way to save significant weight is to not fill the water tanks until you reach that last mile to your campsite. Bit more of work but you can save several hundred pounds right there (and get that Diesel). Propane as well, you don't have to go with two tanks filled if you limit your hot water and heat needs. For clothes, just as a guesstimate, maybe one person will have 50lbs of clothes, shoes and jackets and that is probably being generous. Food for a week for one person is maybe 20 to 30 lbs. Dishes, utensils, pots and pans, maybe another 20 lbs. Basically, if it is just you and you are not hauling kids or a wife, I think it is easy to keep your weight to a minimal amount to stay close to your GVWR.

In addition to truck camping, I'm an avid backpacker and one of the tricks of the trade is to get a digital postal scale and just weigh everything on your packing list and keep tabs of those weights. When your planning a trip, go through that list and check off the items you know you will need for that particular environment (hot weather gear, cold weather gear, etc...). I've never done this for the camper but it is one way to be able to objectively look at your gear and figure out where you can save weight if you need too.

That being said, GVWR is a topic of much heated discussion in the Truck Camper forums. Some swear to never exceed while others feel they are more like guidelines that can be tweaked with the appropriate modifications. I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle, as long as your reasonably close to your GVWR, your going to be fine. If you exceed it by significant percent (I'll let you decide what significant translates to) that you can start asking for trouble.

[eightOsix]

Having just done all the research to buy a new Ford, I can say that there are charts in the Ford towing documentation that calculates (estimates) the truck cargo weight based on chassis and engine. This particular chart (page 12 in the 2018 document) deducts the weight of the total number of passengers at 150 pounds each from the payload. By doing some simple math with the number of passengers you normally carry you can adjust for your situation.

[jfkmk]

Look at the payload sticker on the door jamb. The payload you'll have to subtract from that is everything, driver, passengers, etc. except for fuel.

[Kayteg1]

You are confusing government taxation with real math.
We have a million (maybe more) topics about what taxes you pay v/s what are the vehicle real capabilities.