Choosing a brand

[jdrinkh2o]

My wife and I have decided to purchase a travel teailer. We know the layout we want and weight limitations of her 2014 Expedition. We visited our first dealership and frankly i think i am more confused than before we went. We both fell in love with the Heartland North Trail 26LRSS, but this was not on my radar. We were looking at some Forest River, which this dealership sells, but the (supposedly non-comissioned) rep said he has had some issues getting warranty repsirs with FR and steered us toward the NT and also a Mallard with the same layout, but he said the NT was a better built unit. I always thought of more weight=better built, but that may no longer be true. I would like to keep the one piece nose, as i think it is less maintenance. ANY and ALL comments and suggestions will be appreciated. Horror stories also welcomed.

Years ago we had a pop up camper but other than my wife's family having one when shexwas younget, thatvis our only experience with a travel trailer.

Many thanks.

[goducks10]

As the saying goes. "You need to be rich or handy to own an RV".

[erareeves]

We are long time campers, started out with a fold-down and progressed to a 23' Wilderness with no slide, then a 30' Trail Cruiser with one slide, then to the one we have now, 2017 Prime Time Tracer 3175rsd (rear living room) with two slides. The comments regarding the poor quality are ever so true about most of the brands, the ones we have owned are no exception, and the stories I've heard from camping buddies bear it out. If you are not a person who likes to fix things and figure things out, forget the camping lifestyle. But all that said, we absolutely love our Tracer and after a year or so will have all the stuff fixed and straightened and shiny. The best shop for the stuff that has to be done to a new camper is my shop, the dealer is the place of last resort during the warranty period, after that the camper will never again return to the dealer. We finally found a camper that we can enjoy and relax in without being cramped all the time. We also found out after many years of this stuff that the best trips are the ones where no one else comes along with us. We used to think that we wanted a unit that we could haul around and have all the grandkids come with us, etc. Quickly found out that bringing everyone was a recipe for wearing ourselves out and that's not why we took up camping over 40 years ago. Spend a long time looking for the right one and don't be afraid of a little fixing here and there. you'll be happier in the long run!

[tomkaren13]

My only input is to watch the weight of the TT. They may look simimiler but they can get heavier really quick. You do not want to get beyond the capability of your Tow Vehicle.

[rbpru]

My Mantra has always been, rent before you buy.

Even though you try to check out the items above, chances are you will buy the one with the floor plan you like. Regardless of the other feature suggested, a bad floor plan comes back to haunt you continuously.

We rented a TT with the floor plan we had to have and after 10 days, it was not what we wanted. We searched for a used model with the layout the DW wanted and found a three year old unit that has served us well for 25,000 mile over the last three years.

Three other things that come as a shock to many new TT owners.
* You will get 10 mpg.
* You will find 300 mils a day about average.
* Your average speed will be about 52 mph. or a 250 mile trip will take about 5 hrs.
* You will be passed by everything on the road, because nobody like to follow a TT.

Again, when you rent one of these barns and pull it down the road, you learn a lot very quickly.

RV travel is unique and can be a lot of fun.

Good luck,

[goducks10]

I'll add to myredraer and suggest that when you find some floor plans you like, don't be afraid to test all the areas that you will use. Go into the bathroom, shut the door and sit on the toilet (lid closed:)), stand in the shower to see if there's enough room, step out see if you have room to dry off.
Sit on the dining seats. Is it a booth? Most are really uncomfortable after 10-20 mins. Just sit in them for awhile to see how they feel. Not all are the same.
Basically try out the trailer as if you were going to be in it to use it.
I've read so many posts about owners that complain about things that could've been eliminated had they did a better walk around before they bought it.

Also check to see what's accessible when the slides in. Not everyone worries about it, but many like access to the fridge or toilet while on the road. It's much nicer to be able to use your own toilet and then grab a bite to eat from the fridge or pantry.

[myredracer]

Warning - this blah, blah, blah ended up getting wordy... (Apologies :()

If you have not owned a TT before, it can be bewildering and you can even end up making costly mistakes. You can go to an RV show and walk through what seems like hundreds of TTs, but it does not take long before they all start to look alike. TT manufacturers tend to use similar dark-ish cabinetry, wall & fabric colors. They share the same components like fridges, AC units, water heaters, exterior doors, frames, axles, etc. They don't tell you important things like say how the axle and tire weight ratings compare to what the actual weight on them will be. They emphasize dry weights in order to make them more attractive to those who don't have larger tow vehicles. It's simply so hard to differentiate between them on quality and features. To make matters worse, owners of the same make & model can have a TT full of problems while others can have few - depends on the day of the week, month, and which workers were on the line when it was built. There is no such thing as quality control. Anyway, here's a few thoughts that come to mind:

Our 1st TT was 20 ft. and had no slide. We bought it because we had a truck at the time that couldn't handle more than a 5K lb trailer. We thought it would be our forever TT. I spent a lot of time & $$ on mods & upgrades. However, after just one season, it was clear it was too small and cramped so we decided to sell it and get a better TV and longer TT with slide. We were offered a really low trade-in value at the new dealer. We bought it a year-end blowout price, but dealer's use blue book values based on production year so even tho. we only used it one season, it was considered a 2 year old RV. Tried selling it privately but no bites so in the end we sold it to my BIL. We lost a few thousand or more $$...

It might be wise to rent, borrow, steal or whatever, a TT and try one out before laying out a bunch of $$. Some suggest even buying a used one for cheap first.

If looking at "ultra-lites", know that they build them to weigh the lightest possible using the least substantial, least substantial, thinnest etc. materials. You can a bit of an idea by looking at cargo carrying capacities (CCC or NCC). Some TTs can have low CCC like 1K lbs or 3K or more. This is not a definite but can give you a sense of how much more substantial a TT's construction can be.

TT manufacturers like to play games with weights. The safest way to ensure a tow vehicle is capable is to take the advertised dry wt. and add the CCC to that to get the actual tow weight or use the GVWR rating if listed. Then take 12-13 percent of that to get the tongue wt. Your TV will need to have the payload capacity to carry that tongue wt. Don't let a salesman tell you off the cuff that your TV is just fine for a particular TT. Another thing is that some manufacturers size the axle and tire ratings to an absolute min. but that can lead to blowouts and bent axles. You can estimate the wt. on tires and axles by taking the GVWR and subtracting the calculated tongue wt. and comparing that to the load rating on the tire's sidewall. Axles will have a sticker on them that will give you their rating. TTs can weigh more on one side due to a slideout(s) which can cause overloading of tires on one side.

I would allow for 1K lbs of cargo on top of an advertised dry wt. Some suggest 1500 lbs. I weighed our current TT before and after loading it for camping and before doing any mods and upgrades and the additional wt. came to 555 lbs. If you plan to tow with one or more full holding tanks, allow for 8.3 lbs per gallon capacity. Also allow additional wt. for a battery(s) and propane tanks. Sometimes a TT can easily end up weighing close to it's GVWR rating. Ours will be over if we tow with one full holding tank (not good). If you order options, it might reduce your CCC.

Pay attention to frames. Not all are alike. Some ultra-lites use a frame that have I-beams that are made from 3 pieces of mild steel welded together that *look* like a one-piece I-beam. The 3-piece I-beams flex a lot more and can lead to serious problems in some cases. Most manufacturers have Lippert frames but a few use a BAL Ultraframe that is bolted together instead of welded and they have a good reputation. IIRC, Jayco uses them. Nash and Outdoors RV use the same heavy duty frame built in-house. You might want to look at these to see how they compare to Lippert frames. Even tho. different brands/models of TT are similar length and wt., Lippert frames are not built the same. Some manufacturers spec. stronger frames.

If you have a choice, I'd opt for a TT with a plywood floor and not OSB. Look closely at how cabinets, dinette seating, under-bed storage are built. I've seen some terribly built stuff.

Most TTs come with ST ("special trailer") tires. These have a max. speed rating of 65 mph and need more care (never tow under-inflated or overloaded) otherwise blowouts can result. Most ST tires are made in China and have a reputation for premature blowouts. In some cases, a TT manufacturer may offer an upgrade to a different brand with a higher load rating (for ex., LRC to LRD). The tires are often a generic Chinese brand with questionable quality. It is recommended to have at least 10 percent reserve load capacity and more is better to prevent blowouts (we have something like 30 percent on our LRD Marathon tires).

Some manufacturers are better at warranty support while some have a bad reputation. Some TT brands/models have forums specifically for them and it would be a good idea to peruse to look for quality issues and how a dealer or manufacturer handled warranty repairs. Similarly, there are good dealers and terrible ones. Some are quite inept at doing repairs. See what you can find out about a dealer you might end up having to use. It is common in the RV industry that when you have something that needs repair, you get passed off onto a third party vendor to fight it out with. Some manufacturers and some dealers are better at helping you and some do everything they can to avoid dealing with it.

Don't get taken in by "bling" and miss the things that really count. One dealer even told us that the manufacturers of the RVs they sell focus on bling and not substance. If you have narrowed down to a short list, spend time sitting down inside them, look closely what storage is like, etc. Is the TV in a decent location that is comfortable and visible. Is there enough shelving and storage in the kitchen for dishes, food, etc. Most kitchen counters have almost no place to work on and for appliances but there are some that do have more space. Are the sewer hookup, low point and FW drains in a decently accessible location. Functional things can be overlooked.

This is a bit of a primer off the top of my head. There's a whole lot more things you could look for but would take pages. Everyone on this forum will have various helpful suggestions and opinions from seasoned RV users. Most important this is to search everywhere on the internet you can. Ask questions as you learn more. Ignore what a salesperson tells you. Go to an RV show and spend lots of time in, around, under the units and looking inside cabinetry.

Good luck!

[rbpru]

TT buying is a three legged stool.
1. Floor Plan - Most important because it is a constant reminder of you choice.
2. Tow vehicle - You need cargo capacity that will handle the tongue weight and camping gear. This is often the weak link in the chain.
3. Cost - It is a hobby that you might grow tired of or not get to pursue as often as you wish. It is supposed to be a hobby not a financial burden.

All three of these have to be balanced to match your budget and life style.

You can tell the better quality TTs because they cost significantly more than a similar sized unit. That is thousands of dollars more.

Most of the popular brands are hammered out in northern Indiana using the same labor force and construction techniques. Hence they all seem to have about the same quality track record.

The TT industry makes over 300,000 TT and 5th wheel units a year. A few turn out to be lemons. A good dealer can help considerably.

Good luck and enjoy the RV lifestyle.

[DutchmenSport]

jdrinkh2o wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
...

Watching TV is not one of our priorities, may not even put one in it, but thanks for the observation. Will keep that in mind. We liked the 2 chairs next to the couch for visiting with friends.

I understand, definitely! Everyone has different priorities.

Just a quick note about our camping style: we do use the television a lot in the camper. But we also spend a lot of time in the camper. We use the camper at home, more than we do camping on-the-road. We use it all winter in the drive way, enjoy it year round. We're also getting older now too, and just don't have the need to do all the "running" around any more like we use to when the kids were little. We've hiked, bicycled, canoed, horseback rode, done theme-amusement parks, sporting events, museums, swimming, go carts, movies, and you name it, we probably did it with the kids. Now, it's time to just relax. So we do. There again, everyone camps different, nothing right or wrong doing it any way which is meaningful to each person. I'm just trying to give an observation of the layout of the camper, depending upon what's important.

So, since you said think you'd really enjoy the back window open feeling, and you enjoy the "comfy" closeness for friends and company, and it's just the 2 of you, before settling on your first choice, I hope you can take a look at the Keystone Outback 298RE. It's a little bigger than your desired model, but for 2 people, the rear window, the dual slide living room, the space, the comfort, the open feeling, the windows all around, (and yes, the easy view of the television), and the television that can be lowered to expose the entire back window ... looking outward, instead of having the window to your back... I hope you can see one of these before you purchase. It truly is a good set-up for 2 people. Ours is the Outback 298RE and we absolutely love it! (Maybe that's why we hang out in it so much). :B





The above photo is from the Keystone Web site. Here's ours. We had the free-standing table and chairs. We removed them and the 2 rocker chairs and replaced it with a full size, real house, recliner couch. We never used the table, it was just a catch-all for everything imaginable. So, here's what she looks like now:







Maybe some daylight photos:

Original, before removing the table and chairs:

[GrandpaKip]

I would be very leery of a salesman who tried to steer me in a certain direction because one is built better unless he could specifically point out the differences.
Floorplan first.
Figure out the payload. It is more important than gross tow weight.
Have fun looking.

[goducks10]

Sprink-Fitter wrote:

jdrinkh2o wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
I looked at the floor plan of the LRSS and one thing you should be aware of, the television is a good distance from the chairs at the back window. And anyone sitting at the dinette, only one side can view the television. And the person sitting in the chair next the door, has to look over the sink to see the television. In other words, their view will be blocked. Maybe you won't spend time watching television, but if you do, you'll also find the dinette to be very uncomfortable, unless you put it down into bed position and can recline on it. But then, you might not be able to really stretch out either. (Just an observation).

And, the entry door is right beside the chair at the back window. I think in time, you'll not like to sit in that chair at all. If you put up a TV tray (table) at that spot it will be in the way of the door too, or a small end table, or anything.

Just another observation.

And the small couch? To see the television, any one sitting there will to crook their neck far left. This will get VERY old, very tiring, very fast.

Consider looking at a floor plan that has the television directly across from the couch area and a couch that's comfortable enough, you can recline in it and not have to hold your head up... which is very tiring on your neck. Just one more observation.

Watching TV is not one of our priorities, may not even put one in it, but thanks for the observation. Will keep that in mind. We liked the 2 chairs next to the couch for visiting with friends.

I like hearing that, that's our thinking too we are camping not sitting here watching TV all the time. So many people worry about watching TV when they picked out a camper, unless your full-time I don't know why you worry about a TV, there's more to life than TV

Depends on how old you are and where you camp. I camp in Oregon and we don't have sit outside weather all year. In fact when we do get our trailer out of winter hibernation in the spring and have the itch to go camping. It's more than likely going to rain or drizzle part of the day. Sitting inside is something we plan on part of the year. Watch a couple movies or maybe a tv show. Same in the fall around thru Oct. During the summer our recliners almost never see our b^tts and the tv is never used either. I'm 63, the DW is 60 and we still get out and enjoy nature. But at 60+ years old it's not something that is an everyday must do. It feels good to sit and read, cruise the net or watch a movie or football game in the fall.
So for some having the tv in a good spot is important.
P.S, we have two Trek hybrid bicycles and two kayaks we take camping. So we aren't the sit around and do nothing old geezers.

[Community Alumni]

Find the floorplan first then the manufacturer. Chances are that every manufacturer will out there makes an exact copy of the floorplan that you want. When it comes to choosing a trailer, choose the one that's constructed the best. Find out how the walls, roof, floor are made. These are the areas that cause the most amount of grief down the line. Some trailers use better materials and techniques.

[Sprink-Fitter]

jdrinkh2o wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:
I looked at the floor plan of the LRSS and one thing you should be aware of, the television is a good distance from the chairs at the back window. And anyone sitting at the dinette, only one side can view the television. And the person sitting in the chair next the door, has to look over the sink to see the television. In other words, their view will be blocked. Maybe you won't spend time watching television, but if you do, you'll also find the dinette to be very uncomfortable, unless you put it down into bed position and can recline on it. But then, you might not be able to really stretch out either. (Just an observation).

And, the entry door is right beside the chair at the back window. I think in time, you'll not like to sit in that chair at all. If you put up a TV tray (table) at that spot it will be in the way of the door too, or a small end table, or anything.

Just another observation.

And the small couch? To see the television, any one sitting there will to crook their neck far left. This will get VERY old, very tiring, very fast.

Consider looking at a floor plan that has the television directly across from the couch area and a couch that's comfortable enough, you can recline in it and not have to hold your head up... which is very tiring on your neck. Just one more observation.

Watching TV is not one of our priorities, may not even put one in it, but thanks for the observation. Will keep that in mind. We liked the 2 chairs next to the couch for visiting with friends.

I like hearing that, that's our thinking too we are camping not sitting here watching TV all the time. So many people worry about watching TV when they picked out a camper, unless your full-time I don't know why you worry about a TV, there's more to life than TV

[NanciL]

Don't buy a Forest River, unless you enjoy head ach !

From a new 2016 Forest River owner

jack L

[goducks10]

I owned a 2010 NT 26LRSS for 3 seasons.
1st off the bathroom is small. Once you step out of the tub you have nowhere to go to dry off.
It's 14-15' to the TV. That's a long ways for a 32" tv.
No pantry and very little storage.
No room to get dresses except at the end of the bed. If you want any privacy with the sliding door shut then the space is pretty tight.
The way the two shirt closets beside the bed are designed it feels like a cave. They stick out too far.
Just some observations from a past owner.
Also JMO but it's too much TT for your Expedition. @30' long and loaded up you'll be close to 7000lbs it'll be a load. Mine came from the factory @ around 6100lbs. I towed it with a 2010 F150 MaxTow 145" WB. I wouldn't want anything less.
Not sure which WB you have. 119" or 131" but both are short for that long of a TT. I also had 3.73 gears. You'll need those too. Any less and the 5.4 will be crying in the hills.