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Cummins vs Hummer Towing 6,000 lbs

FishOnOne
Explorer III
Explorer III
Summary towing a measly 6,000 lb camper:

Hummer: ~128 mile towing range (Epic Fail), Price $114k

Ram/Cummins: 9.7 mpg (Fail), Price $68k


Summary: No earth shattering news on the EV, but what was surprising was the underperforming cummins with a disappointing 9.7mpg towing this small camper that has a aero front end.

Link
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"
41 REPLIES 41

Grit_dog
Nomad III
Nomad III
Just remember, boysโ€ฆmost men lie about 3 things. Fuel mileage of their truck, size of the fish they caught and the size of theirโ€ฆ. Johnsonโ€ฆ.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

1320Fastback
Explorer
Explorer
Towing at 70mph is what killed the milage for both. Easily 18% more fuel/energy needed than towing at 55-60.
1992 D250 Cummins 5psd
2005 Forest River T26 Toy Hauler

RCMAN46
Explorer
Explorer
At highway speeds pulling a barn door on mostly level roads wind resistance is the major factor.
The drag from wind is a square function. There is 36% more resistance (drag) at 70 mph than at 60 mph. Thus it will take about 36% more fuel at 70 mph than at 60 mph.

Fisherman
Explorer
Explorer
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Fisherman wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Fisherman wrote:
That's almost not believable from the Cummins. I had an '04 towing a 5k trailer and never got less that 18mpg. Something wrong with that engine.

Almost as unbelievable as getting 18mpg towing a 5klb trailerโ€ฆ.


I agree! Lot's of inflated towing claims. A box behind you at 70 will reduce your mileage for sure.


Not inflated, I didn't tow at Kirk speed, max 60 MPH and yes 18 mpg towing the trailer, sorry if I don't launch like a rabbit and have smoke coming off the brakes 3 feet before the stop sign. Have a great day..


Did you use the overhead or fill each tank to the top? Was your 04 RAM CUMMINS a stick or auto?

Now you mention 60 towing the video was 70 towing. You led us to believe you also were towing 70 by not saying you were towing at 60. Details matter.


I looked at the "Lie-o-meter" infrequently, I'd fill the tank to first click and then add one gallon(there was always that room). It was an '04.5 bought in July of 04, had the 325HP600, 6 speed stick with a 3.73 rear end. Sorry about the 60 vs 70.

Turtle_n_Peeps
Explorer
Explorer
IdaD wrote:
9.7 does seem a little low to me for that setup even going 70. Not crazy low but I'd have guessed more like 11 at those speeds. It could have been a windy day, though.

The interesting thing I've learned watching some of these videos recently is how efficient these EVs are in terms of energy use. Assuming this video is accurate, the Cummins carries 5 times the energy but can only tow roughly twice as far. I suppose even less impressive is that the Hummer needs a 3000 lb battery to carry a fifth the energy vs 31 gallons of diesel.


I went through Texas one time and I got like 9 miles/gallon when I normally got 12. I was driving into a straight headwind. I would guess it was about 20 MPH? So yes, it can make a big difference.

About the motor efficiency. Electric motors are around 80% efficient. Modern diesels are roughly 40% efficient.

A gallon of #2 has about 38kwh of energy in it. So if you have a battery with 131kwh, (a Lightning battery) you have a diesel fuel tank of about 3.5 gallons of diesel. That being said, if you remember, an electric motor is 2x as efficient as an ICDE. So you now have a fuel tank of about 7 gallons of diesel in your electric truck.

A 131kwh battery (the Lightning size) can tow about 7 gallons worth of diesel. My diesel would get about 12 MPG towing that trailer. So my diesel would tow that trailer about 84 miles before I ran out of fuel.
These little electric trucks get around 3/4 of a mile/kwh towing a small trailer.

Well would you look at that!! The lightning towed that trailer 87 miles before it ran out of juice!!!

Math works!!!
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"

"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly."- Abraham Lincoln

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
Fisherman wrote:
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Fisherman wrote:
That's almost not believable from the Cummins. I had an '04 towing a 5k trailer and never got less that 18mpg. Something wrong with that engine.

Almost as unbelievable as getting 18mpg towing a 5klb trailerโ€ฆ.


I agree! Lot's of inflated towing claims. A box behind you at 70 will reduce your mileage for sure.


Not inflated, I didn't tow at Kirk speed, max 60 MPH and yes 18 mpg towing the trailer, sorry if I don't launch like a rabbit and have smoke coming off the brakes 3 feet before the stop sign. Have a great day..


Did you use the overhead or fill each tank to the top? Was your 04 RAM CUMMINS a stick or auto?

Now you mention 60 towing the video was 70 towing. You led us to believe you also were towing 70 by not saying you were towing at 60. Details matter.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Fisherman
Explorer
Explorer
RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Fisherman wrote:
That's almost not believable from the Cummins. I had an '04 towing a 5k trailer and never got less that 18mpg. Something wrong with that engine.

Almost as unbelievable as getting 18mpg towing a 5klb trailerโ€ฆ.


Somebody needs either:

1. New batteries in their calculator
2. A crash course in math skills, or
3. A reminder that honesty is always the best policy

:C


I use the calculator on the computer, I passed Math and why would I fluff the results.

Fisherman
Explorer
Explorer
Cummins12V98 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
Fisherman wrote:
That's almost not believable from the Cummins. I had an '04 towing a 5k trailer and never got less that 18mpg. Something wrong with that engine.

Almost as unbelievable as getting 18mpg towing a 5klb trailerโ€ฆ.


I agree! Lot's of inflated towing claims. A box behind you at 70 will reduce your mileage for sure.


Not inflated, I didn't tow at Kirk speed, max 60 MPH and yes 18 mpg towing the trailer, sorry if I don't launch like a rabbit and have smoke coming off the brakes 3 feet before the stop sign. Have a great day..

the1adman
Explorer
Explorer
9.7 is pretty low, but not knowing the conditions it hard to assume. I have a 21 3500 HO and our toy hauler is 15.5K loaded and 13'6'' tall. We live and travel out west in the 6-8% grades and I average 10 mpg. I end up at 8.5 on some legs and 11 on others.

Me_Again
Explorer II
Explorer II
FishOnOne wrote:
Summary towing a measly 6,000 lb camper:

Hummer: ~128 mile towing range (Epic Fail), Price $114k

Ram/Cummins: 9.7 mpg (Fail), Price $68k


Summary: No earth shattering news on the EV, but what was surprising was the underperforming cummins with a disappointing 9.7mpg towing this small camper that has a aero front end.

Link


That is NOT a aero front end! I has hard right angle corners, and the side wall seams appears a raise area along the front wall. All mileage killers like many cheaper RV trailers.
2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it! RIP DW 07-05-2021

IdaD
Explorer
Explorer
9.7 does seem a little low to me for that setup even going 70. Not crazy low but I'd have guessed more like 11 at those speeds. It could have been a windy day, though.

The interesting thing I've learned watching some of these videos recently is how efficient these EVs are in terms of energy use. Assuming this video is accurate, the Cummins carries 5 times the energy but can only tow roughly twice as far. I suppose even less impressive is that the Hummer needs a 3000 lb battery to carry a fifth the energy vs 31 gallons of diesel.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

RoyJ
Explorer
Explorer
nickthehunter wrote:
TurnThePage wrote:
Whatchaupto wrote:
Cummins12V98. Please explain. 'Tow behind trailers eat more fuel than 5er's.' Thanks.
I think it's all anecdotal, but there have been quite a few posts over the years that indicate just that. Speculation has been that the fiver is very close to the truck, reducing drag, despite being taller.
Key word here being โ€œanecdotalโ€


There're many studies showing the closer to the cab a 5th wheel sits (commercial semis), the less drag.

One extreme is euro semis, where the trailer is almost touching the cab fairing. Mercedes got 18 l/100km (13 mpg) at 88k lbs GVW.

The other extreme is stretched show trucks (300+ WB Petes), 5 mpg on a good day.

Best mileage would be a short box pickup with a sliding 5th wheel. Have the 5'er up tight against the cab on the hwy.

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
TurnThePage wrote:
Whatchaupto wrote:
Cummins12V98. Please explain. 'Tow behind trailers eat more fuel than 5er's.' Thanks.
I think it's all anecdotal, but there have been quite a few posts over the years that indicate just that. Speculation has been that the fiver is very close to the truck, reducing drag, despite being taller.


YES!
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
dodge guy wrote:
Well the guy I used to work with claimed 25mpg towing his enclosed car hauler after he deleted and tuned itโ€ฆโ€ฆ.so thereโ€™s that!


Love these "CLAIMS". Part of the problem is the tuner messes with the MPG. No one fills to the top every tank to know what reality is.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98
Explorer III
Explorer III
Whatchaupto wrote:
Cummins12V98. Please explain. 'Tow behind trailers eat more fuel than 5er's.' Thanks.


Look at the big space between the truck and tow behind. Look at how much that space is closed with a 5er.
2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD