Dealers lots are filling up

[Pbutler97]

Dealers lots around Ohio/western PA are filling up with certain models. Not many heavy duty trucks but I'm seeing a few Chevy and GMC 2500's sit for weeks before being sold and a lot in the pipeline. 1/2 tons are everywhere. Monitoring black book trade and used retail values, they're dropping like a stone. The Dealers I have recently talked to are holding at MSRP on new with one willing to go below MSRP on a 2500 that has been sitting for over 6 weeks. Expect them all to have to start dealing again. Sales are down and dropping. No wonder if you've seen the prices at the grocery store recently and follow the number of companies announcing layoffs or hiring freezes.

[4x4ord]

Grit dog wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:
^^^ Yep. Folks should be pondering why that is, instead of all the distractions they get lathered up about.

And by the same token, I have no issue with people being stupid with their money. Buy new and buy often is my motto to them!

I'm trying to take your advise but buying often is proving to be kind of difficult. They rolled my latest '22 order into a '23 and it will likely be a year before I see it. I've already had to do on oil change on my current rig, :B. Just for kicks I'll be calling the Ram store today to find out what the wait time is on new dually.

[mkirsch]

Grit dog wrote:
They NEVER bought brand new cars.

Yeah, "be fiscally responsible, buy used cars."

They don't manufacture USED cars. They only manufacture NEW cars.

Put another way, someone has to buy the NEW cars in order for there to be any USED cars out there to be "fiscally responsible" with.

Unless you buy some clapped-out chitbox, the cost of used these days doesn't pencil out. You pay almost-new price for a 3 year old used truck with 45,000 miles on it, except with no discount off "list," less on trade-in, no dealer incentives (which Town Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Buffalo are offering on their RAM pickups, BTW), and worse financing terms. Heck my bank won't loan money on a vehicle >5 years old!

[mkirsch]

rjstractor wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
Our means have not kept pace with the price of goods and services, even if you don't consider recent events.

Work harder, get a better job, right? You need to be pulling in a 6-figure income to have the buying power of the average family in the 1950's. There are only so many middle management jobs out there.

You're not wrong about the cost of goods and services, but a young person doesn't need to be middle management or even have a college degree to make six figures, at least in my area. In my job I talk with lots of folks in the construction trades, mostly sprinkler fitters and fire alarm technicians, who are screaming for qualified apprentices. Once they make journeyman that six figures is a reality. Where they run into problems is finding people who are actually willing to show up every day, work hard, be eager to learn and get cold, dirty and uncomfortable once in a while.

When they make journeyman, sure. Correct me if I'm wrong but in most trades, getting to journeyman is a SEVEN YEAR MINIMUM commitment. During that time you work for minimum wage, or even for free, as an apprentice, sweeping floors and doing very little related to the trade, all while being treated like dirt.

Then you'll turn around and grouse about how young people need to be coddled and hand-held, right? It's not either-or. There is a middle ground between abusive and coddling. Don't give me "That's how I came up through," because times have changed. Obviously the old way doesn't work anymore because you're short on skilled workers.

[shelbyfv]

Pbutler97 wrote:
Why should I be held responsible and accountable for my own decision, that's ludicrous? Let someone else pay for it. I am entitled to that and demand it, lol.

Yep. We've seen bailouts of S&L, real estate speculators, auto makers and the decades long prop up of the stock market (0% interest from the Fed....) Not to mention huge Medicare costs for folks who have eaten themselves into HBP and Type 2 diabetes. Tax breaks for having kids is another :h

[Pbutler97]

spoon059 wrote:


I couldn't imagine payments on a $70k vehicle... 6 years even at 0% interest would be almost $1000 a month for a CAR!!! My first 18 years ago was $1300...

I think I'll take down one of those $70K 1000.00 per month drags come spring, then hope someone like the government steps in and pays off the note. Why should I be held responsible and accountable for my own decision, that's ludicrous? Let someone else pay for it. I am entitled to that and demand it, lol.

[rjstractor]

mkirsch wrote:
Our means have not kept pace with the price of goods and services, even if you don't consider recent events.

Work harder, get a better job, right? You need to be pulling in a 6-figure income to have the buying power of the average family in the 1950's. There are only so many middle management jobs out there.

You're not wrong about the cost of goods and services, but a young person doesn't need to be middle management or even have a college degree to make six figures, at least in my area. In my job I talk with lots of folks in the construction trades, mostly sprinkler fitters and fire alarm technicians, who are screaming for qualified apprentices. Once they make journeyman that six figures is a reality. Where they run into problems is finding people who are actually willing to show up every day, work hard, be eager to learn and get cold, dirty and uncomfortable once in a while.

[spoon059]

shelbyfv wrote:
72 months/6 years!!! For a car??? :S

Unfortunately my truck was a 6 year loan (paid off a little over 5 years) and my wife's van is 6 years. They were low interest rates and made it affordable. Those were for $40K and $34K purchases.

I couldn't imagine payments on a $70k vehicle... 6 years even at 0% interest would be almost $1000 a month for a CAR!!! My first 18 years ago was $1300...

[Grit_dog]

shelbyfv wrote:
^^^ Yep. Folks should be pondering why that is, instead of all the distractions they get lathered up about.

And by the same token, I have no issue with people being stupid with their money. Buy new and buy often is my motto to them!

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:


Work harder, get a better job, right? You need to be pulling in a 6-figure income to have the buying power of the average family in the 1950's. There are only so many middle management jobs out there.

You can blame women for a large part of this as well. Womens lib, equal pay, etc spawned many (or maybe even the majority) of 2 income households (not the case in the 50s and before and into the 60s).

Even modest income jobs put a 2 income household at over $100k easily...IF the people actually work. The mean and median incomes, remember, are diluted by the deadbeats and lazy people.

Then, back to living within your means.
Take my parents for example. Mostly 2 income household, very modest incomes, no post secondary education. Survived the union busting of my dad's trade (he made the same in the late 70s as the early 90s....sad). They NEVER bought brand new cars. We fixed 'em ourselves. We tent camped on family road trip vacations. Small house, finished the addition ourselves. They didn't pay for my college education. Etc etc.
They had money to retire when they retired and provided us kids a good (not lavish) life and family.

Fast forward 30 years. We are a single income family (not by choice) but I fortunately make more than enough to do that AND live far more lavishly than my parents did. However, most folks in my income bracket have newer more expensive homes, buy brand new vehicles, pay someone to do EVERYTHING except maybe lawn care and very basic home repairs. AND they are in serious debt. 2 car payments, making payments on not just that and mortgage but some make payments even on their kids sports and activities. HIGH dollar toys, that they also buy brand new and take loans for.

2 completely different scenarios but the common thread is fiscal responsibility. Something many people don't have, whether they admit it to even themselves, or not.

Very little to do with cars being "too expensive."

[shelbyfv]

Yep. Folks should be pondering why their wages haven't kept pace, instead of all the distractions they get lathered up about.

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:
:)There are a few advantages to being old. Seriously, what happened to 36 months and buying within our means?

Our means have not kept pace with the price of goods and services, even if you don't consider recent events.

Work harder, get a better job, right? You need to be pulling in a 6-figure income to have the buying power of the average family in the 1950's. There are only so many middle management jobs out there.

^This is part of the issue, however, speaking for vehicles in particular (and not all the other things that are "cheaper now" than say 20-40 years ago), the other part of the significant cost of newer vehicles is the power technology and features.
Example, from say early 70s to late 80s, vehicle power/technology etc was basically stale. Went backwards in some respects.
90s and 2000s saw big advancements as have the last 10 years or so. Not the least of which is all the newer mandatory safety requirements which weren't present when most of the readership here were young and buying brand new $4000 cars and trucks. Mfgs aren't eating the cost of big brother's overreach...
Reliability, yup, none of those $4000 1974 cars went 200-300k miles on original motors and major components.
Power, 500hp and 1000+ ftlbs out of a pickup truck vs 200hp or less.
Technology. Skip the power everything panoramic moon roof heated and cooled seats, multiple suspension and shifting modes, 10 speed transmissions and get yourself a base model 6banger half ton reg cab or a gasser base model HD truck which still last MUCH longer, have far more tech and comfort features and are far more capable even in base model config and you can have your new vehicle for half the cost of the "popular" ones.

[mkirsch]

shelbyfv wrote:
:)There are a few advantages to being old. Seriously, what happened to 36 months and buying within our means?

Our means have not kept pace with the price of goods and services, even if you don't consider recent events.

Work harder, get a better job, right? You need to be pulling in a 6-figure income to have the buying power of the average family in the 1950's. There are only so many middle management jobs out there.

[camperdave]

I've become a fan of leasing for my wife. She has a fancy pants type job, needs a reliable car, wants something nice and new, and I don't like working on new cars. So a lease works well for her. Except this time when we had to buy out at the end, cause it's too good to pass up. She'll keep driving it for a while, when things revert back, we'll grab a new lease for her. Leaves me in a bit of a pickle with this car though. Once my wife replaces it with a new lease sometime in a year or two, I don't really want to drive it as my daily. But we just set it up to be a toad so we've got to keep it for a long while. I'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

In the meantime my daily driver 2000 frontier (with 2wd, roll up windows, and an awesome hvac system!) does me great. And the 1998 van is always at the ready to pull the boat. As an extra vehicle it's only got 200k rust free miles and should last another 10 years at least.

[Bionic_Man]

shelbyfv wrote:
:)There are a few advantages to being old. Seriously, what happened to 36 months and buying within our means?

36 month terms made more sense when vehicles were $20,000 and mostly worn out at 100,000 miles. Considering prices are now 3x - 5x that, and vehicles easily go well beyond 200,000 miles, longer terms make sense. Especially when interest rates are low (and 5% is still very low historically speaking).

[Pbutler97]

4x4ord wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:
Yep. Not much worse "investment" than an auto, unless it's an RV or boat.

Most of us wouldn't call purchasing an auto an investment although the last few years owning a new truck has paid a pretty good return.

Not really. Still a losing proposition. Sure they were offering high trade values but at the same time getting MSRP and a lot of them a hell of a lot more than that. Vehicles are basically nothing more than an expense.

I'm crushed, a new truck purchased with my Crypto proceeds is now out of the question I think lol.