DEF Shelf Life!

[jjr1314]

Just a quick tip for those that are new to Diesels with all of the newer emission controls. DEF apparently has a shelf life and using anything other than DEF bought from the dealer may void your warranty.
I have a 2011 Duramax and recently had a message on the DIC stating Diesel Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor. Unfortunately I ended up in Limp Mode before I could make it to the 1st Dealer.
I tried to get a service appointment at the dealer I purchased the truck from but they were backed up with recall work. So off to Dealer #1. Dealer #1 was absolutely no help what so ever. They stated that since I had used DEF from an Auto Parts store and not from a dealer they would not cover any of the repairs under warranty. They also said the only fix was to replace the entire DEF Tank to get rid of the supposedly bad fluid. I said no way, put my truck back together and I would be by to pick it up.
Dealer #2 (where I purchased the truck from). Sorry if I am breaking forum rules here but when service is good I think we owe it to them to give them credit. Dave Sinclair Buick GMC is the place I will go for service from now on. I did some research prior to the appointment and was ready to argue my points to them. No need to. They said that they have in the past had problems with GM covering DEF problems in the past but would do everything they could to get it covered. They even said they would contact a regional GM Service Rep on my behalf. They called today and said that it was covered. They tested the fluid and it was good. Turns out it was a bad NOx sensor. It was not the fluid after all but I think I will be keeping better track of where I purchase DEF from.

[coolbreeze01]

Looked at a new rig and the DEF fill area had crystal like debris all over from spilled material. Gotta be good for the engine.

[ricatic]

FishOnOne wrote:

ricatic wrote:

lawnspecialties wrote:

ricatic wrote:
...you sure you didn't take the truck to a Ford dealer by mistake...that kind of treatment is typical Ford style customer dis-service...

Seriously? Let it go.

why...and stifle the truth...my experience is real and valid...just do not want anyone else to ever suffer the tragedy and dishonesty of the terrible Ford Customer Service we received...

Regards

Here's a copy/paste from a Ford diesel tech:

I had a discussion with hotline today (the group that approves/denies these warranty claims) and they said the number of actual failures of fuel system issues from contamination is far less than the issues with the 6.4L. No fuel additives that emulsifies the water in the fuel is an absolute must. Maint records is also a must. They told me in most cases the claims are being done under warranty. The issues I find is the dealers techs that don't like the warranty time that feel they need to make a living off of someone elses hard earned money instead. So they say contaminated and now customer pay. I made a very good living as a tech and I much rather had warranty pay the bill. For one the customer is much happier and the approval is much faster. I would do everything I could to get it covered just to get the job done. There are reports of techs pulling only the primary fuel/water separator bowl down and saying debris and telling the customer they have to pay. That is the point of that bowl is to collect that crap. My advise for any failure that some tech says no warranty is to look and document the rust in the system and pump. Verify that the Hotline also said there is no warranty. Make sure that you are not victim of some hack tech that wants a bigger paycheck from you.

Gloom and Doom...:R

I would agree with most of what you wrote...and quote...but the fact is that in the very end. Ford has the say in what repairs get fixed under warranty...it is their decision...and far to often, they side with bad dealers because they sell a lo of vehicles...I know how it works...I was caught between a crooked dealer, a good and honest dealer and Ford...They sided with the larger crooked dealer and stiffed the customer...Me...Ford had every opportunity and the backing of the honest dealer to do the right thing... they could have kept a lifelong customer of over 50 years...it was more profitable (they thought) to sacrifice one customer than anger a larger dealership...

More importantly to prospective buyers, GM fixes all those pumps in situations where Ford denies...caveat emptor...buy a truck from a manufacturer that will stand behind it...

Those are the facts...as sickening as they are...

...Wearing the Blue Koolaid Protection wetsuit...

Regards

[FishOnOne]

ricatic wrote:

lawnspecialties wrote:

ricatic wrote:
...you sure you didn't take the truck to a Ford dealer by mistake...that kind of treatment is typical Ford style customer dis-service...

Seriously? Let it go.

why...and stifle the truth...my experience is real and valid...just do not want anyone else to ever suffer the tragedy and dishonesty of the terrible Ford Customer Service we received...

Regards

Here's a copy/paste from a Ford diesel tech:

I had a discussion with hotline today (the group that approves/denies these warranty claims) and they said the number of actual failures of fuel system issues from contamination is far less than the issues with the 6.4L. No fuel additives that emulsifies the water in the fuel is an absolute must. Maint records is also a must. They told me in most cases the claims are being done under warranty. The issues I find is the dealers techs that don't like the warranty time that feel they need to make a living off of someone elses hard earned money instead. So they say contaminated and now customer pay. I made a very good living as a tech and I much rather had warranty pay the bill. For one the customer is much happier and the approval is much faster. I would do everything I could to get it covered just to get the job done. There are reports of techs pulling only the primary fuel/water separator bowl down and saying debris and telling the customer they have to pay. That is the point of that bowl is to collect that crap. My advise for any failure that some tech says no warranty is to look and document the rust in the system and pump. Verify that the Hotline also said there is no warranty. Make sure that you are not victim of some hack tech that wants a bigger paycheck from you.

Gloom and Doom...:R

[jjr1314]

Oh and P.S. I never intended this thread to be a Ford vs GM vs Dodge battle. Just wanted to pass on my recent experience with DEF and what I learned from 2 different dealerships about GM's warranty as it pertains to Duramax emissions control system so others on here would have some info.

[jjr1314]

You are correct that having it sit in the tank may be an issue for those that do not put a lot of miles on their vehicles. I do not think there is a good answer that. I put roughly 10000 miles on a year so that makes 1-2 oil changes a year so that means the DEF should last approximately as long as an oil change. We shall see if that works.

[Dayle1]

jjr1314 wrote:
The only reason that I am considering purchasing from the dealer is so I will have records to go back on so the next time this happens it will be covered. I do not put that many miles on the truck so I will just have them top it off when I get my free oil changes there.

The DEF tank holds 5.3 gallons which gives a driving range of 5-7k miles. You say you don't drive the truck much, so if the tank is topped off by the dealer, it could still go bad while sitting in the tank. I drive about 8k miles per year, so when the low DEF warning comes on, I just add 1 or 2 gallons rather than filling the tank completely.

[ricatic]

lawnspecialties wrote:

ricatic wrote:
...you sure you didn't take the truck to a Ford dealer by mistake...that kind of treatment is typical Ford style customer dis-service...

Seriously? Let it go.

why...and stifle the truth...my experience is real and valid...just do not want anyone else to ever suffer the tragedy and dishonesty of the terrible Ford Customer Service we received...

Regards

[FishOnOne]

Bionic Man wrote:
Manguson-Moss Warranty Act allows you to purchase DEF from any source, just as it would oil, filters, or other items. They can't disallow warranty based upon where you bought DEF.

Magnuson-Moss

Just to clarify... As long as the product meets the manufacturers specifications. Run the wrong API oil in your DEF equipped truck and the metals in the oil clogs your DPF... That's on your bill fellow.

[lawnspecialties]

ricatic wrote:
...you sure you didn't take the truck to a Ford dealer by mistake...that kind of treatment is typical Ford style customer dis-service...

Seriously? Let it go.

[FishOnOne]

I choose to buy my DEF from containers and prefer to stay away from bulk like at truck stops.

I'm surprised the GM trucks continue to have the contaminated DEF errors that plagued them since the launch of their DEF equipped trucks.

[jjr1314]

I don't know the correct answers to any questions about DEF but it is incredibly frustrating that the engineers of these systems could screw up such a great truck/engine. I absolutely love my truck and it's a dream to tow with but not so good when you are in Limp mode and a few hundred miles from home towing a 32 Ft camper. I hope others do not have to experience the same frustration that I did last week.

[agesilaus]

Not likely, you'll use at least one 2.5 gal bottle every 8 months or so.

BK

[ToddD]

Considering a new GM 6.6 1 ton.

My current 2004 GMC 3500 is used for trailer towing, so it does not see a lot of miles (not a daily driver).

46k in 10 years.

New truck will probably see same use.

If DEF does indeed have a shelf life, am I asking for trouble putting so few miles per year on a DEF equipped truck?

[Turbo_Diesel_Du]

That was only one of the many problems I had with my 2011 Chev 2500 6.6, Went back to my Ram. Problems solved.

[thomasmnile]

Bionic Man wrote:
Manguson-Moss Warranty Act allows you to purchase DEF from any source, just as it would oil, filters, or other items. They can't disallow warranty based upon where you bought DEF.

Magnuson-Moss

Exactly right!! :C