Dexter axel brake up grade

[Shadow_Catcher]

We have a large teardrop trailer,(I know kind of an oxymoron), and the TV is a Subaru Outback 3.6L H6. The tear has 7" brakes on a Dexter axle. Dexter says there is no way to upgrade to 10" brakes.
Plans for next summer will include perhaps a trip to Alaska just post retirement for my wife. and at the very least some serious travel out west and assorted mountain climbing.
Will I have to replace the axle to move up to 10" or is there a way?

[69_Avion]

I have built trailers (welder trailers) that needed a 2,000# rubber torsion axle, but I wanted a brake system off of a 3,500# spindle.
I had Arizona Axle make a custom Flexiride axle where they cut the center out of the rubber torsion rods so that it rides like a 2,000# axle, but has the spindles of a 3,500# axle. It isn't cheap, but it is better. Remember, these trailers may go off road for miles. I never make trailers with spindles under the 3,500# rating. As I recall, that was about as low of a rating I could go while still having quality components.

YMMV

[time2roll]

The hills are not so bad. Go with what you have I say.
Or are you having actual problems controlling speed?

[spike99]

Hi Shadow Catcher.

Just wondering, do you plan to "up size" the existing brakes on your trailer (via axle replacement or larger hub install / if it fits on existing axle)?

If it were me, I'd simply "up size" to minimum 3,500 lbs rated trailer brakes - for your non-standard towing conditions. Then, enjoy with more safety buffer.

Your call...

[Shadow_Catcher]

Having a career in nondestructive testing that included everything from the space shuttle to nuclear plants and refineries I have a great deal less faith NHTSA and DOT, ASME etc. as many of the specifications are written by, directly or indirectly by the manufacturers. A very specific example of concern to us, ST trailer tires are not tested to the same standards as truck or passenger car tires, I looked at the testing standards for both. As a result they fail at a much higher rate often catastrophically.
I can site many personal examples where manufacturers are give a plus or minus tolerance per ASTM, and you can guess that 90+% of the time they will ground the ~10% under.
Some one I know from the Teardrop & Tiny Travel Trailer forum had just completed an Alaska trip and went to a number of the locations we would go to. He indicated that one 7" brake failed completely and that even with a pickup as a TV had not felt comfortable. In most cases teardrop trailers weigh far less than 2,000 Lbs.
I have found that mine is a #9 Dexter, and there does not appear to be any way to upgrade short of replacement. I will before we go replace and adjust as necessary.

[Lynnmor]

Well you got me! I just come on here to lie about products that I know nothing about. If you have any kind of problems with 7" brakes, it must have been the users fault. After all, they are DOT approved. Good Luck.

[Gdetrailer]

John H wrote:
If there is an apology needed to offer the Op Shadow Catcher, then it is extended,

I can truthfully say,,,This his posted thread fell right in with what my son and I are looking into right at this moment ~~~~~~ along with the above advice on having to change what I was told was a brand new axil on this camper, and can confirm 2 brand new wheels and hubs ~~~~the post fell right in !!!!
So maybe to stretch my intrudance a bit further,,,
I Thank you Lynnmor,
Although non of your doing, it has made our deli ma a lot more complicated. but then I have found this is so when some good additional info come along in any scene, additional choices then also have to be made. And this in this case,it is good for us to know. Now, what to do, what to do ????

oh by the way if it matters,,,Drexel and Dexter are two different manufactures

It kind of amazes me on how many names of manufacture, of these complete new or re-do electronic brake kits are out there. A couple of American made ones, which I was leaning forward on, but now if these 7" ones, are for some reasoning are made to be junk, I wonder why ? What can't they do, or do to, to the 7" sizes that does not translate to the 10" size ?

Umm.. I would take Lynnmor's "experience" or "opinion" with a grain of salt..

A quick search using 7" trailer brake problems" revealed NO, Zero, ZILCH NOTHING..

If Lynnmor was really speaking the full truth I would have expected at least ONE "hit" in the search..

You can check my search results HERE if you like.

There are possible hundreds of thousands of trailers running around on the roads with 2,000-2,500 lb axles which would have 7" brakes and ONLY ONE person seems to have an axe to grind about them..

That should be throwing a lot of red flags into the air..

7" brakes ARE DOT compliant for the LOAD they are designed for, if they were so substandard as Lynnmor suggests then I would expect tens of thousands of complaints and a DOT/NTSB investigation/recall or cease and desist order to all axle manufacturers. But I do not see such evidence.

Are 7" brakes going to be as strong as say 10" 0r what the heck 12" brakes.. Absolutely not but they are designed for a specific weight and will perform well enough to handle the design weight.

If I were you, I would recommend that you contact Dexter directly and talk to them, ask for technical assistance.. I have and I can't say enough good things about how they answered my questions on 30 yr old axles from a company they bought out made..

Secondly if you don't trust the source who makes the axles and brakes then try calling a few of the retail suppliers like ETRAILER.COM for assistance and ask them if they have had a lot of complaints about 7" brakes being junk..

[John_H]

If there is an apology needed to offer the Op Shadow Catcher, then it is extended,

I can truthfully say,,,This his posted thread fell right in with what my son and I are looking into right at this moment ~~~~~~ along with the above advice on having to change what I was told was a brand new axil on this camper, and can confirm 2 brand new wheels and hubs ~~~~the post fell right in !!!!
So maybe to stretch my intrudance a bit further,,,
I Thank you Lynnmor,
Although non of your doing, it has made our deli ma a lot more complicated. but then I have found this is so when some good additional info come along in any scene, additional choices then also have to be made. And this in this case,it is good for us to know. Now, what to do, what to do ????

oh by the way if it matters,,,Drexel and Dexter are two different manufactures

It kind of amazes me on how many names of manufacture, of these complete new or re-do electronic brake kits are out there. A couple of American made ones, which I was leaning forward on, but now if these 7" ones, are for some reasoning are made to be junk, I wonder why ? What can't they do, or do to, to the 7" sizes that does not translate to the 10" size ?

[Lynnmor]

John H wrote:
Lynnmor I hope that you are still around,
I came across what I thought was a good price on a older Coleman 12' Pop-up, bought it for my son and t his family. The owner informed me up front, that last year the bearing took out the axial and he replace it with a new one along with hew tires and wheels, but did not go the cost of putting back on the brakes. I have checked and he did buy the flanged axial that is required to add back on the electric brakes.around $500 plus.
Now I read your post and,,,,,,well can you fill in the make you have been having trouble with and all of the details on all of those experience down threw the years and what was their solutions ?

First off, there is no real solution as the 7" brakes are nothing but trouble. As you read this, keep in mind that I only used these trailers a few thousand miles per year.

Early models had riveted lining that wouldn't pass state inspection as soon as they were broke in because there was only the minimum amount of material above the rivets when new.

Despite being maintained, I've had:

Bonded lining come apart.
Magnet wires brake off.
Magnets come off their posts.
Springs come off.
Severe rusting.
Adjusters break (no replacements available).
Drums were way out of balance.
Very poor braking always.

I've tried several brands, even Chinese knock-offs, with no good results. I set the brake gain less than it should be in an effort to preserve these pathetic devices. I have only once made a trip to Maine and back without a brake failure, and that was after I learned to braze the brake magnet clip in place. There are no other members in our snowmobile club that have functioning 7" brakes. My advice is; give up on the 7" brakes and get bigger axles or a bigger tow vehicle.

[John_H]

Lynnmor I hope that you are still around,
I came across what I thought was a good price on a older Coleman 12' Pop-up, bought it for my son and t his family. The owner informed me up front, that last year the bearing took out the axial and he replace it with a new one along with hew tires and wheels, but did not go the cost of putting back on the brakes. I have checked and he did buy the flanged axial that is required to add back on the electric brakes.around $500 plus.
Now I read your post and,,,,,,well can you fill in the make you have been having trouble with and all of the details on all of those experience down threw the years and what was their solutions ?

[Gdetrailer]

carringb wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Understood..

However, even with say a disc brake upgrade there IS a "point of no returns" on how much extra braking can be provided before tire lock up on the trailer becomes a greater problem..

That is true, but he's having overheating problems, and disc brakes are simply superior for heat rejection. I know the feeling well too because it only takes 1 hard stop from 70 MPH on a downhill (6-8%) to cause brake fade in my tailer.

My concern is his car HAS disc brakes AND he is overheating them PLUS the trailer brakes..

EXCESSIVE SPEED combined with heavy braking will easily defeat even disc brakes.

Heck even big motorhomes can easily smoke brakes if they fail to use engine braking on long steep grades.

OP needs to do a few practice runs downshifting to see how more effective it can be to allow the engine to hold back..

Granted with a car you have gear ratios which will not be as helpful but it is well worth the try before sinking bunches of money into a bigger axle with heavier brakes...

OP also needs to put their "trucker hat" on for driving a towing combo.. You simply cannot drive as if you have no load behind you (AKA "sports car mode"). Use the posted trucker speeds when descending long steep grades basically anticipating and taking action BEFORE you start down a grade (IE NOT DOING 70 MPH downhill)..

[spike99]

Shadow Catcher,

IMO, many trailer (RV, boat, utility) factories build their trailers on the need of 90% of their buyers. Minimum build for most of their buyers means more profits for their pockets. Thus, many install "just enough" braking power and they forget about the non-average buyer / non-average towing conditions. If your trailer endures non-average road conditions (like driving down very long steep grades), then yes. I too would recommend a trailer brake upgrade improvement - even though the trailer maker may disagree. BTW: If they did agree your trailer needed brake upgrades, it "could be" ammunition for your lawyer - which they don't want to battle. Sad to say but true.

To upgrade your trailer brakes, I would seriously look a larger brake backing plate (aka: brake plate / flange) on existing axle and install the larger size brake hub assemblies. re: Replace existing 2,000 (????) brake assemblies with much stronger 3,500 brake hub assembly. Or, might even upgrade to 10" for 4,400 lbs brake hubs - if fits on existing brake flange holes. And yes, if the brake flange will bolt onto existing axle, then simply install new brake assemblies and new rim replacements. If the new brake flange won't fit on existing axle, then "up size" axle swap is needed as well. If DIY work isn't your thing, take your trailer to a few welding and/or auto / mechanical shops in your area. Many of them will do visual checks and recommend their best solution - after double / triple checking "current" configuration themselves.

If wondering, I always "up size" my trailer brakes. Especially since I keep my trailers for many, many years - which means "up size" cost is worth it in the long run. And, I've never regretted doing "up size" to my many different trailers.

Hope this helps.

[carringb]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Understood..

However, even with say a disc brake upgrade there IS a "point of no returns" on how much extra braking can be provided before tire lock up on the trailer becomes a greater problem..

That is true, but he's having overheating problems, and disc brakes are simply superior for heat rejection. I know the feeling well too because it only takes 1 hard stop from 70 MPH on a downhill (6-8%) to cause brake fade in my tailer.

[Shadow_Catcher]

The current Subaru is 2012 3.6L, previous TV was an 01 3L which had near the same horse power but required premium. The main problem was the about 4,000 drop in altitude in 12 miles between Tioga Pass and Lee Vining. The 01 also would not let you over rev the engine and had one less gear then the 12.
I have never been able to lock up the trailer brakes, and yes this is perhaps a bit of paranoia but our first tear did not have brakes and it was scary even in the hills of southern Ohio. You can get away with things, until you can't. My understanding is that depending on which axle I may be able to upgrade.

[Wishin]

I think the H6 still used a traditional automatic for a while longer than the 4 cyl. It now comes with a CVT however per the Subaru website. Hard to say what the OP has without them saying. That would help. I'm not sure how much worse a CVT is for holding speed downhill, it may have issues like you say Bryan. Regardless, no braking upgrades will hold up down a long mountain grade, you will overheat regardless. I would recommend the OP find the biggest longest hill they can find for testing purposes (might need to leave Ohio) before they go to Alaska or any large mountains again. If they cannot successfully use engine braking to hold their speed down a long steep grade, they really need a different vehicle. Hopefully this is not the case. I never even thought about a CVT possibly causing this issue. Upgraded brakes would still come in handy for emergency stopping needs, so maybe not a waste completely.