Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[DavidPhillips]

It's not going to blow up Bert, just get bad mileage or use a little oil. Generally a sloppy engine.

[DavidPhillips]

If you have an 05 chevy truck did they happen to call and mention that your blower motor wiring harnes is melted and offer to give you the upgraded one?

Or maybe they were good enough to put on the upgraded washer pump for you too, since they are all bad too.

[BertP]

Telling me that my truck has a bad steering shaft would cost them money. Telling me that my truck requires a 500 mile break in period when it really needs a 30,000 mile break in period will also cost them money due to prematurely worn out parts. Do you honestly think that they would do that????

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

Did GM tell you your steering shaft is bad on your truck? It is.
However they know that most people don't notice until warranty is out.

All 04 and 05 chevy trucks have bad steering shaft. Maybe others too, I'm not sure.

[BertP]

GM says it takes 500 miles. I will accept what GM says. They know what kind of pistons and rings are in the engine and what kind of treatment (if any) the cylinder walls have been subjected to.

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

If you get a new one and pay attention to it you will see that the mpg will increase and the engine exhaust will sound smoother when it breaks in.

Took about 5000 miles on the 04 6.0L and about the same for 05 5.3 chevys I have got new and broke in lately. The 04 is at 150,000 never had a wrench on the motor, burns no oil, and gets the******run out of it all day long. The 05 has 66,000 miles and is like new also.

The diesels take longer and generally may use some oil until broken in. Not as much on a gas.

Improper driving on a new one it will never break in.


They are using some very hard annealed coatings now on rings and tops of pistons to take the heat of a turbo diesel.

Like my engine it's 21.5 to 1 compression with air at 14.7 psi already add some boost and the compression is around 600 psi. That's hot.
Without the annealed coating she would melt.


Bert, you have lower compression but add more boost. So it's relative.


Ever wonder why these guys bolt on a supercharger to their new Mustang and it goes poof within a week, that's why. The methane will help but let and run out and see what happens.


First 500 - 1000 is critical to not idle and not overload the engine, running it at peak torque range for first 1000 miles vary rpm by 100 n either side will result in a better engine.

That's just the beginning of the breakin period. After that it can be driven normally but will require some time to break in depending on how you drive.

It's best after first 500 - 1000 miles to manual shift the transmission to prevent coasting for a while and preferably in one gear accelerate and decelerate repeatedly for as long as you can until it's started to break in properly.


The rings in a new engine have a tendency to not clean the cylinder of all oil when idling leaving a film there and extreme heat of the ring and combustion process can bake this oil film on and it will stay there. Overloading a new engine will result in overall sloppy engine parts on everything from rings to bearings.

Some computers retune over about a hundred miles you can disconnect the batteries to reset this. Some may require something like 50 ignition crank cycles like my 95, or PCM reset and relearn on some.


When you do a resleave and new pistons on a diesel generator for example you must properly load it for hours before putting it into service or it will not break in.


Starting with some long rods in salt water for a load and lowering them every so often until full load is achieved and then run at full load for hours on end. Then it will last until the required maintanence is done again.

[Sport45]

DavidPhillips wrote:
Also it takes around 10,000 to 30,000 to break in a diesel.

That's something on the order of 20 to 50 MILLION engine revolutions. What on earth could take that long to wear in?

I think 500 miles (about 1 million revolutions) is more reasonable for wear in. I have heard many reports of engines acting a lot better after 10,000 miles though, both gas and diesel. It's hard for me to understand why that would be. I think it may be a combination of the engine management system training itself to the driver and the driver training him(or her)self to the engine.

A million cycles should be plenty to wear any parts in.

[BertP]

GM says 500 miles for my DMax.

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

Also it takes around 10,000 to 30,000 to break in a diesel.

[BertP]

The majority of cylinder wear - for both gas and diesel engines - occurs immideately after startup. Since the is no oil pressure, there is metal-on-metal wear of the rings against the cylinder walls. It has nothing to do with fuel.

Bert

[DavidPhillips]

The main reason for the remarkable difference in cylinder wall wear is due to the way an engine warms up.

When a gas engine is cold it needs to be very rich to run and therefore gas is passing between the cylinder and piston. A diesel does not warm up this way, it never runs richer warming up.

You can help the problem with a gas engine if it is allowed to warm up at idle. Use block warmer, and use the right thermostat.

[DavidPhillips]

I'm not talking about maintaining the truck. I'm talking about when the truck is wide open at 15 to 20 mph for three hours.

The gas engines we had would do OK for a while but eventually when the going gets tough you could hear valves clattering and then it would overheat.

One example was a surburban I used for a few days. It was a new 5.7L which seemed to go good at first but you could tell it was struggling. A rod started knocking when going through a bad spot within a couple of days of going up in down the beach. It was still running but was not going very far.

The Vans started using so much oil they were wore out. It's not like they ran hot and burned up on the side of the road or anything they were wore out. The Ford dealer is the one that said the back cylinders ran hot. They claim there was not enough cooling in the block for ten cylinders. Maybe they have redsigned it now and it's good forever, I don't know.


Same with the 8.1's they start using a lot of oil. Some last longer than others.


What really matters is that you put in gas if you have a gas engine and diesel if you have a diesel engine. Nobody really cares about what someone else drives.



Why the diesel is stronger has to do with some very simple properties of the combustion of the fuel. More heat means more energy. What I can't understand is why the gas engine will overheat where the diesel does not under the same conditions when the diesel is actualy running hotter. The only thing I can think of is the gears and the rpm the motor needs to turn.

The gas engines were more or less lugging to go 10 to 20 mph. The diesel engines were too somewhat but did not seem to bother it as much.

I would imagine the 36" wheels put more strain than normal on the engine. Maybe if the gasser was geared to turn up a lot higher it would pull OK in the sand but would be a ***** to drive home 1200 miles and back on break with the gears. Changing the wheels was not that big of a deal.


I never saw a PSD or CTD go bad yet. Sure they do but I have not seen one. The PSD's would blow the transmission before the water temp shows hot so it's hard to say if that saved the motor.

[robertalso]

diesels tow more and are stronger engines

[desrcr]

I guess I could be making it up just to fuel the fire but since you have no claims of your own why should anyone care what you think?

So, I should makeup outragous claims too, that will make you take seriously?
The hone marks at 200k is just too much.
I own several vehicles, deisel/gas, both take about the same $$ to maintain and use. I'm sure the deisel will see much more mileage but none will be done at 80.000k.
If the gassers are overheating for extreme usage,I would assume the TD's would have turbo issues due to EGT's

I guess the folks/company you work for just don't maintain nothing?

[BertP]

Under normal use? What does that mean? Since GM rates the DMax and the 8.1 the same, they will last the same length of time when worked and serviced the same. I don't know how that could possibly be interpreted to say that one engine will last longer than the other.

Bert