Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Rvndave]

The Ford 6.0 PSD has been plagued with problems, the 03 year in particular. GM's Duramax is actually an Isuzu engine, they have had many injector problems. I do not like the idea of an aluminum crankcase and heads Isuzu uses. As for Bert's comment regarding vibration of Cummin's inline 6, I feel no extra vibration, and wonder if he just guessed a 6 cylinder would be rougher than an 8. I have had both a PSD 1994, and the Cummins Dodge 2003. For power, fuel economy, ease of maintance, and reliability, I chose the Dodge with the Cummins.

[U_P_camper]

so I'm looking at GM2500's and Ford PS250's-- I likw thw looks of the fords better but I'm getting scared off by some of the stuff I've seen about the PS's.

Just what are the problems with them?? is it a certian year they had problems?? I'm looking at used '04 to'05, and I really don't want to run into any majoe issues.

I know there are ford guys and gm guys on here and I don't want to start a bashing thread, just honest answers and opinions please.

Any help would be great, I've never owned a diesel before and don't really know where to start.

[BertP]

Paul - The things you should consider when deciding on an engine for your tow vehicle are reliability and your personal requirements. Diesels are expensive up front and, while some people do use them as their daily drivers, they are more sensitive to the cold than a gasser. If you do decide on a diesel, look at them all. The V configuration in the Fords and GM's doesn't vibrate as much as the inline 6 configuration of the Cummins. And, since the V configuration is found in most off road construction and mining equipment, it must be more robust than those used in the wimpy OTR rigs. :E

Seriously, though, find the truck that you and your family like. If ou do much camping, you will be spending a lot of time in it so you should make sure that it is what you want.

Bert

[Rvndave]

Paul, what particular configuration is best, varies for each individual. If buying a new truck, keeping it 16 years and only going 40,000 miles, you might be better off with a gasser. At 16 years and that low of mileage, you would not have saved enough in fuel, or resale value to justify a diesel based on cost alone, in my opinion. A truck your keeping for high mileage and selling soon enough to consider resale value, a diesel is the most cost effective, once again, in my opinion. If power is your main concern the diesel wins no question, especially at higher altitudes. If MPG is your main concern, once again the diesel wins. If resale value is your main concern, you guessed it, the diesel wins again. The only downside is initial cost. I know some will say the diesel maintance is so much more. Well I do my own service and the extra maintance is extra oil and a fuel filter to change. I do not have to replace spark plugs, nor ever suffer the cost of a tuneup. I can buy alot of oil, and fuel filters for the cost of a tuneup. To really give you my opinion it is not a truck unless the has a clutch, a straight 6 inline, and no spark plugs. The main reason I bought the truck I have is, the Cummins inline 6 cylinder turbo diesel. Be open minded, when looking for a truck look at all three, what I want you to look for is the turbo charger. Take a look at the room around the engine to work on it, notice the Cummins turbo is mounted right on the exhaust manifold, no crossover pipe and buried turbo. An inline 6 is a much simpler design, and is the most common design engine in over the road trucks. I based our truck purchase on getting as much information as I could find. This included talking to many owners, salespeople, and of course on the Internet. As for it must be right because some business does it, well many business owners, or who makes there decisions, make mistakes. C ya, much later, at the top of the mountain.

[BertP]

Rvndave - Whos says that any particular configuration is "best"? Businesses do what makes them money not what someone else thinks is "best". If it makes sense to buy a diesel, they buy a diesel. If it makes sense to buy a gasser, they buy a gasser. Since GM sells trucks up to 7500 series with gas engines, there must be a lot of people out there who believe that gassers are "best".

Paul - Diesels are more efficient than gassers, so they burn less fuel than a gasser for a given distance travelled. And, since diesel fuel has traditionally been significantly cheaper than gasoline, you would be a fool to put a gasser in any vehicle that pile on a lot of miles in a business environment. Simple economics, nothing more.

Bert

[Paul_Clancy]

Just as we continue to say a gasser big block in any md chassis can make good sense IF the terrain will allow, ie not constant high pass travel. Buying a gasser for daily mountain pass runs would be a VERY expensive proposal for a commercial md truck. Occasional passes, or in town or east of the rockies sure. There's a place for both configurations in all types of tow vehicals but the largest otr trucks and buses where diesel still rules.

[Rvndave]

I am sure the 8.1 is able to pull whatever load the truck is rated for. I am also sure the gasser will be cheaper. I am also sure there are some that will buy this truck. Manufactures make what sells, not always what is best.

[BertP]

Why do you say that it won't pull the load? It will pull with any diesel.

Bert

[ponie]

I have a question and in stead of starting another thread...... I figured it would be best here.

GMC puts the 8.1 liter gas in commercial trucks clear up to the 7500.

Looks like the largest Diesel will be a 6.6 liter in the 5500 series top kick for 2007.

I know the big trucks are designed to handle the weight, but why would GM put that 8.1 liter in that big of a truck if it could not pull the load?

What am I missing?

[iamrazor]

I just purchased a new (to me) 03 Chevy 2500 HD with the duramax engine. So far I love it. Taking the maiden voyage to Myrtle Beach in 2 weeks. I'll be sure to report back my findings. so far I'm ~18Mpg, but I'm not a leadfoot.

[Rvndave]

The 6.0 PSD was a problem engine from the start.

[Wrenchtraveller]

I have had RVs for 30 years and got a new TV every 5 years or so. I always buy Fords and I would get the the options that gave the highest tow ratings when it was time to buy. In 88 the 460 gasser was rated higher than the old IDI Navistar that was available so I got the 460.
Good truck, very hard on fuel. My next truck was a 95 PSD Ford. Huge improvement, much better on fuel and more power. I wanted a Crew Cab so got a 2000 F350 with another PSD. Another good truck, not quite as good as the 95 on fuel. In 04 I bought another F350, this time a 6.0 PSD.
This truck was harder on fuel than both my previous diesels but had more power. It also was problematic and left me stranded along the road on 3 occasions. Reliability is number 1 to me, higher than power or fuel economy. I wanted to stick with Ford and did not want to gamble with another PSD so I was happy in 05 when Ford bumped up the power of the V10 gas engine and gave it the same Tow Specifications of the PSD. I did the research and the V10 has a decent reliability reputation. So far I am pleased with the way it tows my 06 Montana Fiver and it has much more power than the old 460 did and uses a lot less fuel. I know at higher elevations, the Turbo diesels will walk away from me on grades, but at under 3000 ft, if they want to walk by me they will do so at the risk of a speeding ticket because my V10 will do 60 MPH up a 6% grade If I want it to. My combined weight is 20800 pounds and Montanas are high profile Fivers 13 Ft high.
Diesel guys might not believe this but I was a diesel guy for 12 years and probably will be a diesel guy again some day so I have no reason to embellish my performance and I did a lot of research on this truck before I ordered it from the factory. The Torqueshift is a great Transmission and also another reason the truck tows so well.
I just want people to realize there are gas engines out there that will pull a Fiver pretty well.

[grampachet]

There is another thought I have never seen mentioned here. Instead of just the longevity of a diesel engine what about the rest of the truck? The alternator works a little harder on a diesel if you have two batteries. A diesel alternator is no better than a gasser. The diffs, brakes, shocks, belts, and batteries, do they last longer on a diesel or a gasser. How about the doors, seats, elect windows, tires and lights. If the rig is heavier it seems as if some parts would wear faster. If there is more vibration there are other components that will need replacing more often. I have found it is a matter of preference for me. I really enjoy the masculine sounds of the diesel. The smell isn't even that bad. When I leave a CG early or arrive late the noise can be a problem. Another thing, it was hard to sneak away with the diesel I just sold. I am looking forward to my v-10 gasser f-250 King Ranch.

[wschreiner12]

I'm still undecided after two round trips from Michigan to Florida.

Our 1997 E-350 Chateau Club Wagon V-10 served us very well for eight years while pulling a 27 ft bunk house TT. After retiring we up-graded to a Mountaineer 32.5 double slide so I upgraded the E-350.
Rather than going for the Diesel pickup right away (2 kids still in college), I had the 3.73 changed to a 4.10 including all new bearings, added an extra leaf to the back springs, replaced the ball joint and tie rods, total brake job and all new shocks. I spent $3K and two years later I have saved 10,800 in truck payments.

The kids have both graduated and I can afford anything now. I'm very impressed with the V-10 from lengthy experience and Ford's beefy 5 speed automatic should smooth out those three grades on I-75 that slow our 17,000lbs CVW down to 45mph. From eight years of foreign car diesel experience, I also know about the added cost of oil filter, glow plugs, guel filter, fuel heaters, etc.

The final decision is: If we stay east of the Missippi, I buy a new F-350 with the V-10 and the Torqushift 5 Speed. If either kid relocates out west we go for the F-350 6.4 Diesel with dual Turbo and the Torqushift. In the meantime we can probably squeeze another year out of the old van while the kids get situated.

Any suggestions about spending the money on having the fuel system cleaned to get plaque off the valves or leave well enough alone will be appreciaqted.

[MADDOG_]

I'm averaging 15.9 mpg unloaded, 12.8 loaded (Jayco Eagle 14,700 GVWR) in my 06 Chev 1ton crewcab Duramax Diesel with 6-spd Allison trans.

There's no way I could tow as well, or with as good a mileage, in a gasser. Don't get me wrong, gasser's work well with lighter trailers but as you go up in weight, there's nothing out there that beats the torque of a diesel or the mileage.

Fuel prices for diesel have been on the upper side and lower side of premium gas here for quite a while. Right now, it's a 2.59/gallon where I trade, just under the price for premium. Whichever fuel you use, you know it's expensive. While I'd like to see fuel prices drop, we all know they won't.

Does that keep me at homebase? No Way....I didn't invest in the truck and the 5VR to let it sit.