Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[bluenote]

Ace! wrote:
Based on your profile, you have a Chevy. How familiar are you with the numbers I posted? Real world experience, or just an unhappy diesel owner?

Ace! wrote:
bluenote, I've never said anything about Chevys

Of course you didn't. :R

Nothing amuses me more at these forums than when someone makes an inflammatory statement, then denies it, but forgets their original comment is still posted. I understand what you're saying, but you contradicted yourself. The Ford mileage numbers have been the lowest among the domestic diesels for several years. If you truly want to make the argument you attempted, maybe you should consider researching all 3 makes, instead of only the one which comes closest to supporting your claims.

As far as your neighbors' DMax, it sounds like something is significantly wrong. I get right around 20 on the highway and have broken 22, 16-18 city and 11-12 towing an 11K 5er. That is hand-calculated.

[Rvndave]

Ace! wrote:
Where I am:
Gas is $2.88/gal
Diesel $3.35/gal

Fuel is roughly 15% - 20% more for diesel than gas

V10 is a $600 option
PSD is a $6895 option

Mileage in polls I've seen on a ford truck forum show mileage to be approx 10 - 14 for the V10 and approximately 10 - 16 for the 6.4L PSD. So there's rougly 15% - 20% difference in fuel economy.

The maintenance schedules are the same between the two and costs more for the diesel. By my calculations the diesel pays for itself in no time, meaning never.

The V10 puts out (properly equiped, 4.30 ratio) more rear wheel power (hp/tq) than the 7.3L PSD, almost as much as the 6.0L, and more than enough to do any job.

V10:
362 at 4,750 rpm
457 lb-ft torque 3,250 rpm
4.30 gears multiplied by 457 lb ft torque = 1965.1

PSD 6.0
325@3,300 hp
570@2,000 torque
3.73 gears multiplied by 570 lb ft torque = 2126.1

PSD 7.3 (1999 - 2003)
250 hp
500 lb-ft torque
3.73 gears multiplied by 500 lb ft torque = 1865

I get 20-22 MPG solo. Crunch the numbers how you like, but I have towed with gas, and diesel. The power difference is like night and day.

[Ace_]

I agree Madhatter1, but the V10 in a Ford lasts damned near as long as a "Ford" diesel. Ask someone with a high mileage V10...they are out there.

[Madhatter1]

I guess all those trucks and all thos big boats are misguided in there use of a diesel. Fact is light load to medium (or heavy for the short haul) a gas is OK or even the BEST choice. Heavy load the only choice is diesel. A 454/502 in a heavy boat is considered good if it puts out 1,000 hours. A diesel is expected to produce 3,000 to 4,000 hours and higher. Over the road heavy duty trucks are considered LOW MILEAGE at 500,000 miles. There is a use for both engines and an overlap as well. Why is this so hard to understand??? I am not trying to convert anyone out of there gas truck, yours is the best for your application or you would not own it. What works for one does not work for all. If you think I am wrong try to convince a 1500 guy that he needs to drive the 3500 you do. Does not work because YOU know nothing about why HE drives what he does. Everyone get off the high horse and give some real world info that would really help someone get into the right truck. RANT OVER.

[Ace_]

bluenote, I've never said anything about Chevys, how many miles you have or your mileage. You're the one that's off base. You can look up the figures for yourself, or go to any good Ford forum/site yourself...or dyno the Ford trucks and you'll see what I'm saying is true (but I don't think you're concerned with the facts or what's true). By the way, can you quote my posts about your truck's power, mileage, how well it runs?

Also, my neighbor has a 2005 or 2006 Chev 2500 Duramax/Allison. He gets 14mpg, and less towing, and it's another "fact", for whatever that's worth.

I'm sure you're aware, with your real world experience that the new 6.4L with the DFP/emissions has significantly lower mpg than previous models. Again, I'm sure I'm not telling you something you didn't already know, since you don't own a Ford and your truck isn't a 6.4L (based on your profile).

[8_1_Van]

mgratner wrote:
We just arrived in Florida from upstate NY. Once we got to VA diesel kept droping. We paid anywhere from $3.31 to 3.45 per gallon at Flying J. Just filled up at the J in Ft. Pierce for 3.39. Gas has been anywhere from 20 to 50 cents less however we pull an 11,500 pound fiver and averaged 13.6 MPG at 58 MPH. I believe that the price increase in diesel over gas is more than offset by the milage we get.

Cigar Mike

We are going to Myrtle Beach SC on Nov 1st and will be stopping at exit 104 on I-95 in VA were today Flying J has reg unl gas for $2.279 and $3.219 for diesel but will be getting gas at the Shell station that has the same price but with my Shell card that gives 5% off so I would be paying about $2.15. I think by Nov 1st I will be paying around $2 with the Shell card so do the math, diesel will be about $1 more a gallon or 50% more.

[mgratner]

We just arrived in Florida from upstate NY. Once we got to VA diesel kept droping. We paid anywhere from $3.31 to 3.45 per gallon at Flying J. Just filled up at the J in Ft. Pierce for 3.39. Gas has been anywhere from 20 to 50 cents less however we pull an 11,500 pound fiver and averaged 13.6 MPG at 58 MPH. I believe that the price increase in diesel over gas is more than offset by the milage we get.

Cigar Mike

[bluenote]

Nice try with the misdirection Ace, but you are completely off base again. My Chevy has almost 160K and runs stronger than ever, plus I get significantly better mileage than what you claim to have "heard" about. An "A" for effort on your part though.

[Ace_]

I was wrong, the 7.3L/6.0L was available with a 4.10 ratio, so multiply the numbers as you need to in order to get the stock numbers. It didn't affect the tow rating between the vehicles, but it would impact the torque at the rear wheels.

Unfortunately I let my "real world" experience influence what I posted...I've never met someone with a Ford diesel that got a stock 4.10 ratio but I've read it was available.

edited for spelling/clarification

[Ace_]

bluenote wrote:
Ace,

Besides the fact you are basing your numbers on what you've read, as opposed to those of us with actual experience, you are performing a little statistical magic in the hopes no one will notice. You talk about the mileage of the 6.4L PSD, but then use the power figures for previous generation models, as well as only using rear gearing options to help your argument. You can't have it both ways, either use the same base for each set of stats, or don't post something which many of us have found false through real experience.

I don't have actual experience, and this is based only on what I've read? I don't know where you got that.

I didn't have the 6.4L power/tq numbers. I already had the 7.3L, 6.0L and 6.8L numbers somewhere else, so it was easy to copy them over. I'm familiar with what people are getting mileage-wise with the various Ford trucks.

I only used "stock" hp/tq and differential gearing. The 7.3L and 6.0L only came with a 3.73 ratio, so I used it; HOWEVER, you could get a 4.30 ratio in a diesel IF you got a dually, but only for the 6.0L and I think it was for one or two model years only. The V10 came with 4.30 as a stock ratio, so my post was for stock trucks, and for those I had the numbers. There isn't anything creative and I wouldn't base the "power/tq" on options that weren't available in the diesel trucks. If you bought a single rear wheel drive vehicle from 1999 until the 6.4L came out, that's what you got, and the 6.8L has more power than the 7.3L and less than the 6.0L, comparing stock trucks. It is what it is, nothing going on, no fudging the numbers, just REAL figures. Post the 6.4L numbers, multiplied by the available differential, it won't hurt my feelings, I just never looked it up.

I was making two points, that the gas engine has enough power to pull anything the diesel(s) can, actually has a higher payload by the way, and that it costs less overall.

Based on your profile, you have a Chevy. How familiar are you with the numbers I posted? Real world experience, or just an unhappy diesel owner?

[mrdave]

In my opinion, I opted for gas because of the extra cost associated with diesel, and the extra noise put out by diesel engines. Then add in the fact that China has selected diesel over gas, which keeps the demand high, resulting in higher diesel prices.

As I don't need the extra power of diesel, and wanted the ability to stop at ALL gas stations to fill up (not all have diesel) I stayed with gas.

But like everything else associated with a RV, it was more personal opinion more then anything.

[bluenote]

Ace,

Besides the fact you are basing your numbers on what you've read, as opposed to those of us with actual experience, you are performing a little statistical magic in the hopes no one will notice. You talk about the mileage of the 6.4L PSD, but then use the power figures for previous generation models, as well as only using rear gearing options to help your argument. You can't have it both ways, either use the same base for each set of stats, or don't post something which many of us have found false through real experience.

[Ace_]

Where I am:
Gas is $2.88/gal
Diesel $3.35/gal

Fuel is roughly 15% - 20% more for diesel than gas

V10 is a $600 option
PSD is a $6895 option

Mileage in polls I've seen on a ford truck forum show mileage to be approx 10 - 14 for the V10 and approximately 10 - 16 for the 6.4L PSD. So there's rougly 15% - 20% difference in fuel economy.

The maintenance schedules are the same between the two and costs more for the diesel. By my calculations the diesel pays for itself in no time, meaning never.

The V10 puts out (properly equiped, 4.30 ratio) more rear wheel power (hp/tq) than the 7.3L PSD, almost as much as the 6.0L, and more than enough to do any job.

V10:
362 at 4,750 rpm
457 lb-ft torque 3,250 rpm
4.30 gears multiplied by 457 lb ft torque = 1965.1

PSD 6.0
325@3,300 hp
570@2,000 torque
3.73 gears multiplied by 570 lb ft torque = 2126.1

PSD 7.3 (1999 - 2003)
250 hp
500 lb-ft torque
3.73 gears multiplied by 500 lb ft torque = 1865

[bluenote]

10 demerits for posting the same pictures a second time.

[8_1_Van]

Rvndave wrote:
8.1 lets keep on topic, this is yet another thread you are attempting to ruin. I don't understand your big concern about gas prices anyway as you have posted you ride your bicycle to work, and take a dozen people on vacation with you to pay for the gas.

Right, a Diesel vs gas forum should not have any posts on diesel vs gas prices because diesel owners don't like that.:R

Oil prices are down again today and you could get gas for $1.83 when you use an Exxon/Mobil Mastercard card !


Exxon/Mobil Mastercard w/15 cents per gallon rebates on gasoline purchases