Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Paul_Clancy]

The new gm filter which is made by racor part pff2016 is 4 micron and a water coalecser with double the service life. Previous filter was 2 micron standard pleated media.

[Steakman]

Now I wanna make a comment on: Filters - Fuel/Oil and Mileage

The particulate matter that can damage your diesel engine is in the 5 - 12 micron size. I can't comment on Dodges/Fords as to what they use. In my D'max I use the OEM fuel filter which I am told is a 10 micron filter. I am about to install a Nictane Pre-Filter kit whereby the that filter is also 10mU. But it is mounted under rail near the fuel cooler and utilizes large Cat Filters. At the same time I will be installing a TTS single lift pump as the D'max does not come std with one...stock trucks only use the cp3 or Injector pump to pull the fuel up.

The issue on GM's is that if you add extra filtration without adding pump capacity (lift pump or a Fuel/Vapour separator/pump system), you risk damaging or blowing your cp3 due to the added restriction of the extra filters...not a good thing.

I also have had my egr Blocked (w/fingerstick), since the 37,000 mile period (54,000km). I am now at 233,450 km or 144,230 miles. I did so because it simply did not make much sense to me to a: reduce the total available amount of Oxygen and b: add particulate matter (soot) into my engine and c: have to clean and/or replace my intake every 100,000km cause it was all plugged up with soot and gunk. To date..NO ISSUES.

As for Oil, I use a Filtration Solutions FS2500 oil Bypass system. Catridge is located outside of drivers side frame rail: 1 line goes to a plug in the engine - the other goes from the filter back into the drain plug on your poil pan. MY OCI now tends to be 15 - 17,500 kms. Oil analysis finds the oil in excellent condition even at that extended period. The cartridge is a 5mU filter. My oil will stay fairly clean for the first 1500 km or so gradually getting darker. There are other vendors out there for similar systems.Amsoil is one I know for sure.

As for mileage:

Rolling resistance (tire type and pressure)/lead foot/large sail like thing behind you when you are towing are the killers.

Spare me the BS on how a tune gave you 3 mpg and how a CAI gave you 1.5mpg and how an exhaust gave you an other 2mpg. I dont buy it.

For the record, I run a Banks 6 Gun PDA typically on level 2. I bought it cause a pillar type of setup only allowed 2-3 gauges and I hit my damned head on it everytime. The Banks gives me plenty of info and works just fine for me...a bit of extra Tq and HP...but mileage..I couldnt really quantify that in any meaningful way.

My mpg: Flat roads, MT truck, no wind at 65 mph is typically 19.5 mpg. DIC or hand calc..pretty much the same. Towing: 11-12.5 mpg

As for the recession being over..? Don't believe it.!!

Cheers,

stk

[Steakman]

I'm with Cigar Mike.... 🙂

fuster...you bring your 8.1 Litre with a 5er...and I'll bring my D'max with the same 5er and we,ll take a little drive from Pincher Creek, Alberta to Castelgar, BC and we shall then see, who passes who going up a cpl of "little" hills (35-40km @ 8-10% grade), they have along the way.

I dont care how good your tune is, you aint passin this or for that matter just about any 3/4 ton diesel up those hills my friend.

stk

[dirtbag3]

dfranks wrote:
I know 10 grand for injectors is pretty unrealistic,
In response to the OA statement. I do 1 OA a year because:

I run a High performance tuner and I would like to know in advance if I have an injector going,(fuel in oil)to replace an engine after a runaway is probably close to 20 grand Canadian.

My oil turns black after changing in 2 minutes flat, I use my truck for work (construction)I work it everyday.and I do extended oil changes. When would you suggest I change the oil?.
For $25 bucks I found last year that my silica levels were considered high and that there was something wrong with my air fiter. I checked my filter to see that a small hole had worn in the corner of filter from being installed incorrectly,(dealer) and that dust was being sucked in through that hole.

I have always been told that if you buy a diesel that it is even more important to do maintenance. I guess if you are a point a shoot kind of person and don't work your truck, then I wouldn't do an OA either but for me it works.

Are you kidding me, an OA found you had a hole in your air filter. Save $25 and just check you air filter next time.
I own a Ranger (not for towing) I use it to haul ceramic tile for my C54 company. It has never failed in 250,787 miles.Change oil when I feel like it. I have never changed the trans fluid. 1 radiator, 1 injector, and 1 belt change. Its gas btw
My V10 sees less maintanance since its my wifes daily driver.(I know how to work on vehicles I choose to play with my freinds and family instead).
Point and shoot I say , Gas or Diesel
Im done here, you CTD folks are WAY to fanatic about your F ing trucks. ITS JUST A TRUCK

[Hannibal]

Must have been an accurate assumption. Hit your nerve right on the head! You posers are too easy to spot. You done with your tantrum yet? Never claimed to have vast knowledge in the diesel industry nor have I written or rewritten anything about diesels. But thanks anyhow!:B

Oh yeah..., gas versus diesel...

[dfranks]

Wow, another uneducated answer, at the very least side stepping the question followed by an immature jab remark.

Answer the questions Hannibal, or at the very least try to share your Vast experience of the diesel industry. Base your answers on fact and not fiction quote only accurate information therefore rewarding us with information on the gas vs diesel thread. Instead of the "posers with shined up trucks outside the trailer"comments.Normally I would see children answer questions in that sort of fashion, and not someone who has rewritten the book on diesel technology like yourself.

[Hannibal]

My '03 was beyond the Wendy's drive through test by 44000. I guess some could call that an injector problem. I wasn't concerned about it. Especially not concerned about it enough to spend $3k on a set of injectors. What year is this particular person's Ram.
Sounds like someone needs to educate some of these diesel experts. If they put misinformation on their web pages, how can you trust them to be knowledgeable about your truck. May be why some point their trucks back to the dealership. Not perfect but they do hold the warranty card.
Buy fuel from a busy station is good advice. I've always bought from busy, clean known name stations gas or diesel. Not worth a $.05 a gallon to take a gamble.
I've seen those shined up posers parked at construction sites outside the contractor's trailers while the F-150's do all the beatin' and bangin', grunt work and haulin' materials and refuse trailers.:B

[Bionic_Man]

Many owners have injector trouble by 50,000 miles? Come on now. I'm not saying that the diesels are invincible, but that statement is WAY too strong. I know many, many people with diesels (mostly CTD) and I can only think of 1 person who has had injector trouble. That was one time when the truck was new. That particular person now has over 95k on the clock, all hard time as it is a work truck, and no additional injector problems.

[dfranks]

Hannibal wrote:
Probably because, as the literature in your last link points out, due to the 10micron filter they say Dodge uses when a 2micron filter should be used (a human hair is 40~ microns for comparison) and many owners have injector problems at as low as 50k miles, most would show up at the dealership wanting to take advantage of their 100k mile warranty only to hear that fuel contamination isn't covered under warranty. Most aren't within dragging distance to a diesel performance or repair shop and as a result are at the mercy of the dealership. Even the low low price of $500 each or $3,000 for a set is outrageous even if you have the tools and know how to change them yourself. Most don't.

Actually Dodge now uses a 7 micron filter for their trucks (since 07)
Alot of owners will not use a 2 micron on a stock lift pump for obvious reaons. Baldwin has a replacement filter for this application that is 5 micron. Regardless,Dodge will not warranty your injectors without a fuel sample from your tank regardless of what filter setup you have.
Buy fuel from a busy station!

[dfranks]

I know 10 grand for injectors is pretty unrealistic,
In response to the OA statement. I do 1 OA a year because:

I run a High performance tuner and I would like to know in advance if I have an injector going,(fuel in oil)to replace an engine after a runaway is probably close to 20 grand Canadian.

My oil turns black after changing in 2 minutes flat, I use my truck for work (construction)I work it everyday.and I do extended oil changes. When would you suggest I change the oil?.
For $25 bucks I found last year that my silica levels were considered high and that there was something wrong with my air fiter. I checked my filter to see that a small hole had worn in the corner of filter from being installed incorrectly,(dealer) and that dust was being sucked in through that hole.

I have always been told that if you buy a diesel that it is even more important to do maintenance. I guess if you are a point a shoot kind of person and don't work your truck, then I wouldn't do an OA either but for me it works.

[rrnelsonjr]

They are the same Bosch injectors that the dealer gets. I am willing to pay a little extra for a better warranty as long as that little extra is within reason. I disagree that most are at the mercy of the dealership. I think most people feel the dealership will do a better job but that is not always true.

I agree that even $500 per injector is outrageous but then again I don't know exactly what it takes to build a diesel injector.

I am fortunate enough to have the tools and the ability to work on my own vehicles. I think I started doing that because I was a poor college student at one time and had to learn to fix things on my own. My wife says it's because I am tight and will squeeze a quarter until the eagle screams.:B

[Hannibal]

Probably because, as the literature in your last link points out, due to the 10micron filter they say Dodge uses when a 2micron filter should be used (a human hair is 40~ microns for comparison) and many owners have injector problems at as low as 50k miles, most would show up at the dealership wanting to take advantage of their 100k mile warranty only to hear that fuel contamination isn't covered under warranty. Most aren't within dragging distance to a diesel performance or repair shop and as a result are at the mercy of the dealership. Even the low low price of $500 each or $3,000 for a set is outrageous even if you have the tools and know how to change them yourself. Most don't.

[rrnelsonjr]

Hannibal wrote:

rrnelsonjr wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
But at over $10,000 for a set of injectors for a 6.7L Cummins from the Dodge shop, I'm sure I'd rather replace a set of coils.

A complete injector is $500 to $600 each. I do all my own work so I don't know for sure, but I find it really hard to believe that additional parts and labor from a shop is going to run $6,000 to $7,000. If it does, then it's no wonder I do my own wrenching.

Just passing along what I read over at the DieselTruckRegister from a member there who got tangled in the mess. I don't even want to think what a set of injectors would cost for a PSD installed. But $3600 for six over the counter 3rd party shade tree rebuilt injectors after core exchange is pretty cheap! Why I will NOT be using any gimmicks, gadgets, snake oils or other unapproved aftermarket money grabs on my 5th Cummins powered Ram.:B
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/injectors-junk-chrysler-wants-10200-replace-t236674.html

First of all, you found one person and the majority of the responses said the same thing I did...that is way way too much money.

Second of all, a Bosch injector is a Bosch injector. They are not better just because they came from a Dodge dealer. I don't understand why so many people feel the need to go to the Dodge dealer when a Cummins specialist can do the same job so much cheaper.

The most expensive new one I found was this one and it is $750 for a new Bosch
http://www.shopdiesel.com/_e/07_5_09_6_7_Cummins/product/0-445-120-050/New_Stock_Injector.htm

Then I found this one for $607.08 and it too was a new Bosch.
http://www.angoladavesdiesel.com/shop_website_018.htm

I found another site that had the injector for $575 that had the same part number but it did not specifically state it was a Bosch so I decided to omit that link. So even if the most expensive injector is used, the extra parts, tax, and labor is still $5,500? That is a rip-off.

I guess what I am saying is shop around.

On edit, I found another new one from Pure Cummins for $499.
http://www.purecummins.com/catalog/67l24v/Dodge-67L-Cummins-Diesel-New-Bosch-Stock-Fuel-Injector-075...

[Hannibal]

rrnelsonjr wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
But at over $10,000 for a set of injectors for a 6.7L Cummins from the Dodge shop, I'm sure I'd rather replace a set of coils.

A complete injector is $500 to $600 each. I do all my own work so I don't know for sure, but I find it really hard to believe that additional parts and labor from a shop is going to run $6,000 to $7,000. If it does, then it's no wonder I do my own wrenching.

Just passing along what I read over at the DieselTruckRegister from a member there who got tangled in the mess. I don't even want to think what a set of injectors would cost for a PSD installed. But $3600 for six over the counter 3rd party shade tree rebuilt injectors after core exchange is pretty cheap! Why I will NOT be using any gimmicks, gadgets, snake oils or other unapproved aftermarket money grabs on my 5th Cummins powered Ram.:B
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/injectors-junk-chrysler-wants-10200-replace-t236674.html

[rrnelsonjr]

Hannibal wrote:
But at over $10,000 for a set of injectors for a 6.7L Cummins from the Dodge shop, I'm sure I'd rather replace a set of coils.

A complete injector is $500 to $600 each. I do all my own work so I don't know for sure, but I find it really hard to believe that additional parts and labor from a shop is going to run $6,000 to $7,000. If it does, then it's no wonder I do my own wrenching.