Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[RFOneWatt]

Jarlaxle wrote:

RFOneWatt wrote:
Everybody keeps talking about pulling the grades. How about we talk about the differences in engine braking (gas/diesel) when going back down? We all know that's FUN. Especially when the mountain road is unpaved... 😉

Just for fun, here are a few short videos of 7000LB behind my 5.4L Expedition in the mountains of Wyoming and Utah. We had to pull over several times due to overheating.

(click the first set)

If trucker-speak offends you, don't watch the video with the radio. 🙂

Misc. Towing / Driving Videos

-T

Please stop comparing apples and rutabegas. You had a 5.4 in a light-duty SUV, with marginal cooling, 4R70W car transmission, and tall gears. There is a yawning chasm between the towing ability of your station wagon and a Super Duty pickup, with its high-capacity cooling system, 4R100 or 5R110 transmission (or 6-speed manual), and deep axle gearing.

But the Ford dealer and RV dealer said I wouldn't have any problems at all, and could pull even more if I wanted to. 😉

I did, and I'm not. I'm providing facts based on MY experiences so that someone doesn't make the same type of mistake I did. Precisely why I said "Just For Fun."

It's also why as soon as I got home from that trip I went and bought one of these:

New Tow Vehicle

I'll be sure and wave to you sitting on the pullout as I pass by at 65 on a 6% grade @ half throttle with my A/C on. (While sipping a cup of coffee and chatting up my wife...WHILE NOT WORRYING.)

Of course, if you're in trouble I'll still stop. I'm good like that.

Now try and be nice.

-T

[mgratner]

Tom Hoisenger,

You might be fooled by your Cruiser. We have been fulltiming in one for over 5 years and we have been extremely pleased wioth its performance. We had one problem when it was 4 months old, which Crossroads promptly took care of. We have looked at a lot of so called full time units with their glitz and glitter. The Cruiser works, without issues, so we will stick with it.

In my opinion going with a gas engine, even a V10, just is false economy, not to mention the increase in power avaiable on a diesel in high country. 8000' feet, 24% loss in HP on any gasser.

Cigar Mike

[Jarlaxle]

RFOneWatt wrote:
Everybody keeps talking about pulling the grades. How about we talk about the differences in engine braking (gas/diesel) when going back down? We all know that's FUN. Especially when the mountain road is unpaved... 😉

Just for fun, here are a few short videos of 7000LB behind my 5.4L Expedition in the mountains of Wyoming and Utah. We had to pull over several times due to overheating.

(click the first set)

If trucker-speak offends you, don't watch the video with the radio. 🙂

Misc. Towing / Driving Videos

-T

Please stop comparing apples and rutabegas. You had a 5.4 in a light-duty SUV, with marginal cooling, 4R70W car transmission, and tall gears. There is a yawning chasm between the towing ability of your station wagon and a Super Duty pickup, with its high-capacity cooling system, 4R100 or 5R110 transmission (or 6-speed manual), and deep axle gearing.

[Jarlaxle]

blt2ski wrote:

Jarlaxle wrote:
Ford puts V10's on 26,000lb GVWR (30K GCWR, IIRC) F53 motorhome chassis and 19,000lb GVWR/30,000lb GCWR F-550's. A V10 will do fine in a SD pickup towing 13,000lbs. It will still be hauling less weight (and probably less drag) than a V10 in a 35' class A motorhome!

Not sure I would agree with this totally. As a trailer will have 4 tires on the road, truck 4-6 vs a MH having 6 tires. A 5W may or may not have more windage than a MH. Many of the MH' today are pretty aerodynamic compared to a truck/trailer combo. So reality tells me with out doing figures etc, that a truck/trailer may be harder to move, and need more HP than a mh.

But, I would agree, the V10 is more than up to a task of moving a 20-25K rig down the road.

marty

Every 5er I've seen is pretty streamlined...and the vast majority of class A's I have seen are flying-barn-doors with upright windshields and little or no streamlining. They are, if anything, LESS aerodynamic than they were 15 years ago! (When the slant-nose shape was popular.)

[RFOneWatt]

Tom Holsinger wrote:

The only real towing differences between a gasser and a diesel TV, before I retire, are that the diesel would be far superior for a few hours twice a year (coming and going over Donner pass) both uphill and downhill – the latter because of the exhaust brake - and that its higher tow capacity gives me more options in buying a 5th wheel, notably in getting larger used ones.

What he said. 😉

I forgot to hit post about an hour ago.

Hope we were able to help, Tom. 🙂

[RFOneWatt]

Everybody keeps talking about pulling the grades. How about we talk about the differences in engine braking (gas/diesel) when going back down? We all know that's FUN. Especially when the mountain road is unpaved... 😉

Just for fun, here are a few short videos of 7000LB behind my 5.4L Expedition in the mountains of Wyoming and Utah. We had to pull over several times due to overheating.

(click the first set)

If trucker-speak offends you, don't watch the video with the radio. 🙂

Misc. Towing / Driving Videos

-T

[Tom_Holsinger]

Rich,

It is highly likely that I’ll get a Ford F-250 with a V-10 gasoline engine as my first tow vehicle. There’s just too big a price difference between that and a diesel dually F-350 or Ram 3500 for me to get a diesel before I retire. Comparably equipped, comparable mileage 2005 models of those which are on sale within 100 miles of me right now are $18,000 for the gasser and $27,000 for the diesel.

The only real towing differences between a gasser and a diesel TV, before I retire, are that the diesel would be far superior for a few hours twice a year (coming and going over Donner pass) both uphill and downhill – the latter because of the exhaust brake - and that its higher tow capacity gives me more options in buying a 5th wheel, notably in getting larger used ones.

Against that I have to consider a worst case scenario of having to prematurely replace one of our existing vehicles, and use the tow vehicle for commuting instead of storing it with the RV. My Army truck friend says I’ll do more harm to a diesel dually, and reduce the its useful life more, using it as a commute vehicle than I’d hurt a gasoline V-10 lugging a 12,000 – 13,000 pound RV over Donner Pass twice each summer. A new model Crossroads Cruiser Patriot edition is about 9000 pounds empty, has a GVWR of 12,000 pounds and a hitch of about 1500. I doubt I’d fill the things so the total towing weight with hitch should be about 12,000 – 13,000 pounds.

And I won’t go over Donner Pass every summer before retirement. It looks like I’d take only one vacation a year outside California- three weeks each time- and the mountains getting to Oregon & Washington, plus those in the southern California Mojave Desert area getting to Arizona & New Mexico, are nowhere near as steep and high as Donner Pass in the central Sierra Nevada getting to Utah and Idaho. It’s possible we’d get as far east as Yellowstone. Oh yes, my location – draw a line between Sacramento and Fresno, California. I’m halfway in the flat flat flat.

The new models of Crossroads Cruiser Patriot edition, which my local dealer sells, are perfectly suitable for vacation use and right in my pre-retirement price range. I’m checking their bedrooms out today to make certain I can get my sleep apnea machine close enough to the bed. The Cruiser bathrooms and storage space are not adequate for the 3-4 months at a time trips I’ll take in retirement, but I can get a Crossroads Kingston, a Keystone Montana or a Carriage Cameo then with my vacation buyout. Those would require a diesel dually, but I could get that too allowing for trade-ins plus the rest of my vacation buy-out.

[blt2ski]

Jarlaxle wrote:
Ford puts V10's on 26,000lb GVWR (30K GCWR, IIRC) F53 motorhome chassis and 19,000lb GVWR/30,000lb GCWR F-550's. A V10 will do fine in a SD pickup towing 13,000lbs. It will still be hauling less weight (and probably less drag) than a V10 in a 35' class A motorhome!

Not sure I would agree with this totally. As a trailer will have 4 tires on the road, truck 4-6 vs a MH having 6 tires. A 5W may or may not have more windage than a MH. Many of the MH' today are pretty aerodynamic compared to a truck/trailer combo. So reality tells me with out doing figures etc, that a truck/trailer may be harder to move, and need more HP than a mh.

But, I would agree, the V10 is more than up to a task of moving a 20-25K rig down the road.

marty

[Jarlaxle]

Ford puts V10's on 26,000lb GVWR (30K GCWR, IIRC) F53 motorhome chassis and 19,000lb GVWR/30,000lb GCWR F-550's. A V10 will do fine in a SD pickup towing 13,000lbs. It will still be hauling less weight (and probably less drag) than a V10 in a 35' class A motorhome!

[richfaa]

"My friend who was an Army truck guy says we'd be okay with a V-10 F-250, including use of its air conditioning while hauling a 13,000 pound RV up Donner Pass twice a year in July (once each coming & going),

" yes..For that limited use you will be OK,You will be running pretty slow and the V-10 will be screaming. Take along a book to read on the way up. I suggest the newer V-10 05 and t up and the 4:30 diff.

My V-10 pulled this @ 14K Montana fine 90% of the time but on the steep grades ran out of power. The screaming and high RPM's made me nervous but the big block V-10 is designed to do that.

However... I really think you would be happier with one of the Diesels

IF it is within your budget. What I am saying is with hindsight IF I had the choice between the V-10 and Diesel, same truck and it was withing my ability to buy I would go with the diesel. Just my opinion....

[Jarlaxle]

Rich, thanks. My friend who was an Army truck guy says we'd be okay with a V-10 F-250, including use of its air conditioning while hauling a 13,000 pound RV up Donner Pass twice a year in July (once each coming & going), as long as we use only synthetic oil, change that every 3000 miles and give it a tuneup, oil change and complete maintenance check before each RV trip.

You'll also be fine using whatever 5W-20 you can get the cheapest at Wal-Mart and changing it at 7500 miles.

[blt2ski]

Tom,

Them sons are shrimps! My twin sons are 5'16" not very tall, add in the 2 daughters, probably in the same boat you are/were! Ex hated it when a gallon of milk would go away bewteen breakfast and lunch! I'm going "and?!?!?!?!" qt a person a day, is 1.5 gals between the 6 of us daily. 1 gal will not last long! other issues shall we say.

I have a feeling we both know the same general drill.

Glad you have a bigger garage than I have, I would luv a 30x30 somewhere, then I could park some trucks in them to work on or my bobcat/track hoe etc too.

Generally speaking, you will be fine with a V10, it will go slower than a diesel. Especially on DOnner or equal. You will/would really notice the difference above 6-7K feet elevation. Below, properly setup, not too many differences. Good luck on the search.

Marty

[RFOneWatt]

richfaa wrote:
They are both good motors but it is not fair to compare them.

So True!! I don't know what people don't understand when it comes to diesel engines and what their strong points are.

Every persons needs are different.

I'm glad someone with some real world V10 experience piped up. 🙂

Enjoy your weekend!

-T

[Tom_Holsinger]

Rich, thanks. My friend who was an Army truck guy says we'd be okay with a V-10 F-250, including use of its air conditioning while hauling a 13,000 pound RV up Donner Pass twice a year in July (once each coming & going), as long as we use only synthetic oil, change that every 3000 miles and give it a tuneup, oil change and complete maintenance check before each RV trip.

After looking at Edmunds, we'll go with one of three different 2005 models, a Ford F-250 V-10 (four of which are presently on sale within 100 miles of me), an F-350 diesel dually (six available now), or a Dodge Ram 3500 diesel dually (six again). The 2005 models of each are higher rated than the 2006's, and the Dodge 3500's have horrible consumer ratings for the 2007 and 2008 model years as those were the first with the then-new 6.7 liter Cummins diesel. I haven't checked the Fords for 2007-2008.

Which we get in early 2012 will depend on many factors, including whether we have to replace one of our existing cars earlier than expected (in which case we'd definitely get the F-250) and how the degenerating spinal disk in my lower back feels then.

Marty, we have no trouble fitting a 200" 2006 Ford Freestyle on either side of our garage. The left side is 24' = 288" long. I could get a 226" Ford F-250/350 in there, or a 229" Dodge 3500, simply by moving our freezer from the left side of the garage to the right. It would mean only dumping a 28 year-old plastic sink on the right which we hardly ever use. And the garage door is 8' high.

Try feeding 6' teenage sons. We made Costco food runs every week for years, and had a lot of unused freezer space when they left for college.

[blt2ski]

Tom,

I have to admit, the story to tell is funny, but oh so true. I know of one family that the twins were skipping generations. The day my ex and I found out we were having twins from an ultrasound, we ran into a friend, and she commented a friend of hers from school, her mom had twins, triplets, twins, single single single in about 6-7 yrs for all 11 kids. I think I would have fixed myself after the triplets! We went twins single single. The van was used as a people mover, my CC pickup for the trailer, work trailers etc. Had the best of both worlds shall we say. We had Astro vans for personal moving around, not quite big enough to handle a mid 20' trailer and its HW, along with 1200 lbs of people when the kids were teenagers and adult in size!

marty