Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[The_Mad_Norsky]

Don't own a Hemi in any truck, but in car form (Chrysler 300C) I can surely attest to the amount of power the engine has.

And boy do I agree that those mid-90's low horsepower Cummins were slugs. Of course, I had the 3:55 axle ratio in that truck, and that did not help either. On the flip side, it really got good MPG's, averaging over 20 MPG for the time I owned it.

My main concern in this diesel vs gas debate was my fuel mileage while pulling, and that is the main reason I went with and continue with diesel. To be fair of course, I do not know what some are getting with this newer generation of gas motors, so the once vaunted diesel advantage may no longer exist.

All in all, it may just come down to the individual operator, and what they are used to and comfortable operating.

[Hannibal]

My 2005 Hemi powered 2500HD would out tow my 2003 SO Cummins powered duplicate 2500HD towing the same 10,400 lb 5th wheel around the southeast including Monteagle Pass. 345hp is going to out tow 250 hp any day of the week. My 95 160hp Cummins Ram was a slug. All that grunt and no power. The 300cid I6 F150 I had before it towed our 4400 lb TT better. So you might want to put your sweater on.

[Rota]

Now a hemi will tow better than the cummins.
Not on a cold day in h@!1 I don't care how you dress it up.

In a few years a hemi 1500 will be out towing a 3500.

Your going to try to tell me a hemi will get that load rolling easier and quicker?



A lot of miss info on this site.

[seattlefirervr]

If you are in WA State, the Diesel prices, within the past few weeks, are finally below low grade gas. When vs. price per gallon isn't astronomical...diesel wins EVERY TIME!

[Hannibal]

Absolutely! The Hemi runs 4200rpm 60mph in 2nd gear multiplying torque X 1.67 up the grades. The Cummins with all it's torque is rpm limited to 3k~rpm. That's too bad.

[64thunderbolt]

Hannibal wrote:
Don't worry. You don't have enough understanding of torque multiplication through gear reduction to start anything. The Hemi's 365ft/lb through 1.67 second gear puts more torque to the rear axle than the SO Cummins' 460 ft/lbs in direct drive.

So, you are comparing your hemi @ 1.67 to the cummins @ 1 to 1??

Thats a good comparison.

[ghosst666]

just wanted to see my post and forum list thanks

[Hannibal]

Don't worry. You don't have enough understanding of torque multiplication through gear reduction to start anything. The Hemi's 365ft/lb through 1.67 second gear puts more torque to the rear axle than the SO Cummins' 460 ft/lbs in direct drive.

[64thunderbolt]

Pool Runner wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
Good point John. And I've done a comparison between a 2003 SO Cummins Ram and an identical 2005 Hemi powered 2500HD. If I were deaf and didn't have a tachometer, I wouldn't know the difference towing our 10,400 lb Jayco 5th wheel. The Hemi would actually tow it faster up the grades although it was at 5k rpm/70mph. I usually set cruise at 65 in the interstates and 60 on the back roads and let it shift and do it's thing. The Hemi from direct to second and the Cummins from O/D to direct on the uphills. One shifted as much as the other. Never hurt a thing. Cringe factor is not an engine weakness or transmission problem. More of a mental problem.:B

I previously owned an '05 Dodge QuadCab, 2500, 4x4, Cummins, 3.73 and while I loved the truck and the way it towed anything. But... I can't help but admit how much I actually love the truck/ combo I "downsized" into.

I'm now driving a 2011 Ford F-150, SuperCab, 2wd, 5.0L, 3.55 Yes this is a gasser, and a small one but boy is it stout. My old work truck an '08 GM, 2500HD, 6.0L, 3.73 didn't run or feel as powerful as this new Ford 5.0L. in hind sight I kick myself for not getting the EcoBoost, my reason at the time was that the 3.5L had just come out when I needed a truck last year and dealers were not dealing on them as they were in serious demand. The good news was that all of the 5.0L truck had $12K Off the sticker!! so that was a no brainer.

I also had some warranty work done on my new truck a few months ago (slip-yoke-bump) and Ford gave me a '12 SuperCrew, EcoBoost loaner to drive around. While I know that setup would tow better than my 5.0L, I really could not feel a differenace between the 5.0L & the 3.5L EcoBoost on the road with nothing in the bed or being towed behind.

My 5.0L gets a no joke 22 mpg on the highway empty, cruise set at 68 or 70 and about 15-16 in town. The EcoBooost trucks get about 1 mpg +/- Hwy/ City from what I read. Still 22 mpg's from a normally aspirated V8 is amazing.

Anyway, the wife & I are getting ready to pull the plug on a 20-24' TT with a weight of around 3500-4900 lbs dry, and to be honest I am more than sure my F-150 will be up to the task. I know nobody will belive me, but I swear my '11, 5.0L, F-150 pulls as good as my old '05 Dodge Ram 3/4, Cummins. On top of that the truck is a "Hot-Rod" around town when you are going from light to light or merging onto the highway.

Not trying to start something but the torque is not there. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that small block gasser will tow with that cummins. Hook it to something and go find a 6% pull and come back and let us know how it did. A good running diesel won't feel 4K behind it.

[Hannibal]

Good deal Pool Runner. I'm sure it will tow like a champ and you'll have many years and miles of good trips with it! I too like the hot rod sound of a gas V8. Considering I get 14~ very light city and 17~ hwy at 70 with my 7200 lb Tonka truck, I have no trouble believing 22 with the much lighter and aerodynamic F150 5.0L. Gas engines are getting more and more powerful and efficient. Sounds like you picked a nice one!

[Pool_Runner]

Hannibal wrote:
Good point John. And I've done a comparison between a 2003 SO Cummins Ram and an identical 2005 Hemi powered 2500HD. If I were deaf and didn't have a tachometer, I wouldn't know the difference towing our 10,400 lb Jayco 5th wheel. The Hemi would actually tow it faster up the grades although it was at 5k rpm/70mph. I usually set cruise at 65 in the interstates and 60 on the back roads and let it shift and do it's thing. The Hemi from direct to second and the Cummins from O/D to direct on the uphills. One shifted as much as the other. Never hurt a thing. Cringe factor is not an engine weakness or transmission problem. More of a mental problem.:B

I previously owned an '05 Dodge QuadCab, 2500, 4x4, Cummins, 3.73 and while I loved the truck and the way it towed anything. But... I can't help but admit how much I actually love the truck/ combo I "downsized" into.

I'm now driving a 2011 Ford F-150, SuperCab, 2wd, 5.0L, 3.55 Yes this is a gasser, and a small one but boy is it stout. My old work truck an '08 GM, 2500HD, 6.0L, 3.73 didn't run or feel as powerful as this new Ford 5.0L. in hind sight I kick myself for not getting the EcoBoost, my reason at the time was that the 3.5L had just come out when I needed a truck last year and dealers were not dealing on them as they were in serious demand. The good news was that all of the 5.0L truck had $12K Off the sticker!! so that was a no brainer.

I also had some warranty work done on my new truck a few months ago (slip-yoke-bump) and Ford gave me a '12 SuperCrew, EcoBoost loaner to drive around. While I know that setup would tow better than my 5.0L, I really could not feel a differenace between the 5.0L & the 3.5L EcoBoost on the road with nothing in the bed or being towed behind.

My 5.0L gets a no joke 22 mpg on the highway empty, cruise set at 68 or 70 and about 15-16 in town. The EcoBooost trucks get about 1 mpg +/- Hwy/ City from what I read. Still 22 mpg's from a normally aspirated V8 is amazing.

Anyway, the wife & I are getting ready to pull the plug on a 20-24' TT with a weight of around 3500-4900 lbs dry, and to be honest I am more than sure my F-150 will be up to the task. I know nobody will belive me, but I swear my '11, 5.0L, F-150 pulls as good as my old '05 Dodge Ram 3/4, Cummins. On top of that the truck is a "Hot-Rod" around town when you are going from light to light or merging onto the highway.

[Hannibal]

I paid $3.229 Friday for 87 in Clearwater.

[Ram4Sam]

praisetoGod wrote:

Ram4Sam wrote:
Okay gassers, read it and weep......:B



Sam....all in good fun, of course....

Sorry, man. I'm paying $3.29 per gallon gas in Louisiana and I think that's too high.

Since I took that pic a couple of weeks ago, things have changed....

Diesel and gas can be had in the 3.70 to 3.80 range.

Sam

[Taco]

I just bought a new gas truck. Here is why.

I cannot afford to always own a vehicle that is in warranty. can't buy a new 40k vehicle every 4-5 years. I read the horror stories here and other places about the repair bills on the diesels. some up in the 10k plus range. when they do break they plain cost lots more to fix outside of warranty.

The other reason is that it costs 8k or so more to start. then factor in the finance costs on the 8k so add maybe another 1000. Then add about 500 worth of DEF over 125k miles. then factor slightly increased maint costs, and the 40 cents of so premium of diesel fuel. also for me I pay personal property tax on the vehicle so I pay property tax on that 8k premium.

I keep them for 10-12 years and will put maybe 125-150k on it. neither gas nor diesel will be likely to wear out in that period. the diesel would get about 3 mpg better over that period and will have decreased fuel cost but would be offset by the all the additional expenses outlined earlier.

In towing power differences read the pickuptrucks.com shootouts to see a full throttle measured comparison. the gas engines towing in the 10-12k trailer range are plenty powerful enough to maintain reasonable speed on any interstate grade. You just have to be willing to press the pedal. yes the engine will make some noise while you do this but it isn't hurting anything.


Does a diesel make sense towing over 12k absolutely. under 12k i don't think it makes sense. But this is America, if you want a diesel get it if you can afford it, it will tow any weight better but I don't see a need for it under 12k given it's financial disadvantages.

[Slowmover]

Diesel at $3.65/gl now outside Corpus Christi.