Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[Oldchev]

I posted the material below in another discussion comparing the RAM Ecodiesel 3.0 to the Ford Ecoboost 3.5.

Something very much like this may have already been covered in this thread. After all, the thread is 455 pages long. We should have covered everything by now.

Nonetheless, it's clear from some things that get posted that there's lots of misinformation out there about torque vs. horsepower and gas vs. diesel.

The discussion below focuses on just the two engines previously mentioned. The methods can be applied to any engine and can, perhaps, make it clear why a diesel sometimes works really well, while a gasser might work better for other applications.

Soooo, here we go....
------------------------------------------------
As others have pointed out, torque is a force, while horsepower is force able to move something at some rate. If you lean against a brick wall without moving it, you're applying force, but you're not generating any power at all. If you push on a box and move it, you're generating some power. The faster you move it, the more power you're generating.

An extreme vehicle example (i.e., Teslas and diesel-electric locomotives) involves electric motors, which generate their peak torque at stall, when they're not making any power.

The conversion between torque and horsepower at a given rpm is straightforward: hp=torque*rpm/5252.1, or torque=hp*5252.1/rpm

So now we can talk some actual numbers, instead of various claims which may or may not be true.

Using this, we can see that the Ecoboost, which makes its peak torque of 420 ft-lb at 2,500 rpm, will be making 25% more horsepower at 2,500rpm than the Ecodiesel does at 2,000 rpm, where it is making its peak torque of 420 ft-lb (convenient for this comparison).

If both of them manage to have perfectly flat torque curves from 2,000rpm to 2,500rpm (they don't, but it's probably pretty close), then they are both producing 420 ft-lb at 2,000rpm and 420 ft-lb at 2,500 rpm, and they're also producing exactly the same horsepower at the same rpm, within that range. Despite the much higher peak power, the Ecoboost advantage isn't as much as you might have thought in this commonly used range.

Of course, the Ecoboost produces less than 420 ft-lb at 2,000 rpm, so, at 2,000 rpm, it's also producing less hp than the Ecodiesel at 2,000 rpm.

But, at 2,500 rpm, the Ecodiesel is producing slightly less than 420 ft-lb, so by the time you get to 2,500 rpm, the Ecodiesel is producing slightly less hp than the Ecoboost.

Somewhere in the range of 2,000 to 2,500, the torque curves cross, but they're still not too far apart.

The Ecodiesel produces about 160hp at 2,000rpm. If that's enough for the task at hand, great. After that, torque starts to fall off, but rpm is rising faster than torque is decreasing in our little formula up above, so peak power (240hp) for the Ecodiesel arrives at 3,600rpm. At that point, it's making about 350 ft. lb. of torque. After that, torque falls faster than rpm goes up. Time to shift up to the next gear.

The Ecoboost produces about 200hp at 2,500rpm. Torque falls off after 2,500, but not as fast as rpm increases, and peak power arrives at 5,000 rpm. It is making 383 ft-lb of torque by then.

Now, don't get me wrong, 383 ft-lb is still pretty good, and the Ecoboost can generally haul a given load (within the acceptable range for the truck) up a hill faster than the Ecodiesel if the driver puts his or her foot in it. It may, however, have to turn more rpms to do the job, and it will certainly use more fuel.

[babyj]

🙂

[Slownsy]

You are not saying that the fuel pump on the Rams grenades, that is the reason that every body byes a Ram and not a Ford.
Frank.

[phenrichs]

I agree on the value. I bought my 06 for $10K under book. This spring the high pressure pump went out. Cost me $5K to fix. New pump, lines, injectors. 220K+ miles on it. Still runs great. Still great mileage. Still worth $20K or more according to NADA.
When the pump went my friends were razzing me about 'time to trade it off'. Forget that. A used 2013 with 48K miles is going for $48K right now around here. I gladly paid the $5K for repair.

[mountainsam]

I drive a lot of mountain hiways and with my Cummins I glide down the passes while everyone else is standing on their brakes. Nothing about this truck I do not like. Diesel engine brakes are hugh safety devises. My last Dodge Cummin (2005) I sold for 18,000 with 187k miles, sight unseen in one week. So they cost more but there is a lot more value.

[spud1957]

RUFFSTUFF wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
Guess we should change the title of this topic to gas prices vs. diesel prices.

"Diesel vs Gas"... Too generic for you?

Perhaps it may help you to go back to post #1. Happy traveling.

All due respect, maybe you should as well? OP wanted price variances not price per gallon.

This is a quote from the first post:

Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

[RUFFSTUFF]

spud1957 wrote:
Guess we should change the title of this topic to gas prices vs. diesel prices.

"Diesel vs Gas"... Too generic for you?

Perhaps it may help you to go back to post #1. Happy traveling.

[spud1957]

Guess we should change the title of this topic to gas prices vs. diesel prices.

[RUFFSTUFF]

Jarlaxle wrote:
Seeing gas & diesel within a few cents of each other lately...actually saw one place with diesel cheaper than gas! ($2.159 versus $2.199, IIRC)

Been seeing that around here too... Only cheaper. Makes me so sad... NOT!

[Cummins12V98]

Here in SoCal PalmSpringa area the Sam's was 2.369 and the local Ralph's was &2.199 for Diesel.

[Jarlaxle]

Seeing gas & diesel within a few cents of each other lately...actually saw one place with diesel cheaper than gas! ($2.159 versus $2.199, IIRC)

[ShinerBock]

Closest Sam's to me.

Although it really doesn't matter. Even if regular gas was $1 and diesel was $4 I would still choose a diesel over a gasser in a truck any day of the week and twice on Sunday's. I am more than happy to pay for the added pulling power. Now if that gasser was forced induction then that might be a different story.

[gwh1bass]

$2.19 for unleaded regular
$2.19 for diesel

[zorr59]

Diesel is $1.87 gal imparts of Florida. Wish I had. 55 gal drum to store some. You know that it will go up sooner or later.

[8_1_Van]

I think reg unl gas under a buck is coming soon !