Do all lightweight large TT's tow terribly, or just ours?

[BoilerEE]

Hello RV.net forums friends! It's been a while, but I'm back, and with a completely different rig now. We've had a couple of different large truck campers, a 42' Titanium 5th wheel, and multiple cargo trailers up to 10k# and 30', so I consider myself a fairly experienced RVer.

Thinking I knew what I was doing, we decided to try an SUV/TT combo, and I'm happy that we're only trying it (will be driving back to Alaska for the summer so my wife and I can do our Guard/Reserve duty for the year and then selling the rig up there and flying home). The reason I'm glad is, it tows terribly!!! Here are the details:

2015 Suburban LTZ
2013 Passport Ultra Lite 3220BH
14K Equal-i-zer hitch (tried a 6K on the dealer's advice, and it was way too sloppy, so I just setup my 14K I had from previous setups, and it's better, but still floaty).

So, I spent some time at the scales today and here's what I learned:
Suburban is right at 5980# empty, with Steer axle 3080 and drive 2900.
The height to the front wheel well unloaded is 35 1/2"

I didn't run across without the WD bars attached, but the wheel well height was 36 1/8" with no weight distribution.

With the Equal-i-zer adjusted, my weights are:
Steer: 2840 (240# less than unloaded) and height of wheel well is 35 7/8"
Drive: 3960
Trailer: 5960
Gross: 12760

I'm thinking I could probably put in one more washer to dial in a little more WD and get the Steer axle closer to the unloaded weight, but I'm wondering if not matter what I do the real problem is that I've got a ton of surface area and very little weight. Is this just the way it is with a light and large TT? Is there anything I'm missing?

As you can see, it's dead-nuts level (which makes my OCD happy) -- I just wish it was as nice to drive as it is to look at!

M%Eo6MepSZWYAax5bVlnXA by BoilerEE, on Flickr

[Grit_dog]

Ralph Cramden wrote:
I'd say a combination of the 20" low profile tires and the soft springs designed for ride. Try a pair of Hellwig progressive helpers on the TV, or put some real wheels and tires on and not those public impression generators. You'll still never "not know its back there".

Even though this thread was resurrected from the dead, 20" low pro tires are the opposite of "designed for ride" Apples to apples, bigger rim and shorter sidewall equates to more stability which means a firmer ride.
That's why high performance cars have been running big rims and low profile tires for a long time, vs small rims and big baloney skin tires. That concept has made it to mainstream vehicles in recent years for a couple reasons. 1. It's the "in" style". 2. It actually does improve handling and stability.

[JIMNLIN]

The OP fixed his bad handling issues way back in 4-29-'18 by installing fixes members recommended. He hasn't posted since so looks like Barney's right.

[falconbrother]

I have no doubt that you'll get it dialed in. When we bought our camper in 2017 CW set the hitch up. It tracks straight. No issues, 5800 dry. Also towing with a Suburban. I love my Suburban. Just a great vehicle for commuting every day and towing a few times a year.

[GrandpaKip]

Some times, revisiting things can bring a new perspective.

[BarneyS]

bid_time wrote:
Seems the oleman is having a senior moment/day. Every post he has responded to today is at least 6 months old.

I think he is trying to get his post count up as quickly as possible so he can get out of that "new member" category.:B
Barney

[bid_time]

Seems the oleman is having a senior moment/day. Every post he has responded to today is at least 6 months old.

[Ralph_Cramden]

I'd say a combination of the 20" low profile tires and the soft springs designed for ride. Try a pair of Hellwig progressive helpers on the TV, or put some real wheels and tires on and not those public impression generators. You'll still never "not know its back there".

[OleManOleCan]

WNYBob wrote:
Yes balance makes a big difference, do you have at least 12% of the total weight of the TT (not 12% of the dry wt.)

Next what tires are you running? 'P'? I upgraded to 'E' rated and also upgraded the suspension. OEM plastic bushings were shot. Went to bronze bushings and wet bolts, plus a cushioned equalizer (EZ-Flex by Dexter)

This reduced my sway 10 fold!

I upgraded my last two tow vehicles from 'P' to 'E'.
Made a heck of a difference. Sway was eliminated.
I air my Es to about 65-70 PSI for towing.
Feel a little rough towing at 80-85.

[shfd739]

Sounds like you had the same issues I had trying to get our Sequioa and Shadow Cruiser set up with a Blue Ox hitch. Ive been fighting it for a year thinking it was just not going to be a good combo but reading this post gave me some ideas.

Turns out the auto leveling suspension was intermittently unloading the spring bars after being hitched up which is the same as your hitch not having enough washers. Went up by one notch on the shank and so far it’s taken care of the poor towing issues since the bars aren’t being unloaded.

Now I dont mind towing this combo anywhere and my wife is comfortable towing it as well.

[afidel]

myredracer wrote:
Minimizing sway is normally a combination of different things. Good call on upgrading to LRD tires. I didn't see where you stated what the TV tires are. You want LT tires and raise the psi in them. I run our LRE at 80 psi at rear and 75 on front for towing. Shocks on a TT can really help a lot and sure did on our TT. Not a simple bolt-on project tho. HD Bilsteins (or equivalent) on the TV can also help.

FWIW, if going through BC to Alaska, gas prices are predicted to be up around $8-9 USD/gal due to a war between BC & Alberta gov'ts. Alberta is threatening to cut off oil supplies to BC unless it stops it's objection to the Keystone XL project which is the heart of the issue. Gas is already over $7 USD/gal here and it always goes up a lot over the summer. You might want to stay out of BC for as much of the trip as you can. I just filled up in Bellingham WA at $3.13 USD/gal.

At +$6/gal you could buy a transfer tank and have it pay for itself on that one trip.

[myredracer]

Minimizing sway is normally a combination of different things. Good call on upgrading to LRD tires. I didn't see where you stated what the TV tires are. You want LT tires and raise the psi in them. I run our LRE at 80 psi at rear and 75 on front for towing. Shocks on a TT can really help a lot and sure did on our TT. Not a simple bolt-on project tho. HD Bilsteins (or equivalent) on the TV can also help.

FWIW, if going through BC to Alaska, gas prices are predicted to be up around $8-9 USD/gal due to a war between BC & Alberta gov'ts. Alberta is threatening to cut off oil supplies to BC unless it stops it's objection to the Keystone XL project which is the heart of the issue. Gas is already over $7 USD/gal here and it always goes up a lot over the summer. You might want to stay out of BC for as much of the trip as you can. I just filled up in Bellingham WA at $3.13 USD/gal.

[BoilerEE]

OK, so an update, finally! Sorry it took so long, but I had hernia surgery and was down for recovery for about 4-5 weeks.

So, bottom line up front, thanks to everyone's input here, I'm very pleased now with the setup!
The changes I made were:
1) Put one more washer in the WD hitch and also added the anti-noise pads on the L-brackets, which might equal another half-washer of pre-load.
2) Upgraded the tires to load range D so I could run 65 PSI
3) Fixed the slop in the steering column

The primary fix I think was just continuing to add washers to add more pre-load to the WD setup. One of my biggest mistakes was thinking the number of washers/angle of the head would look anything like any other setup I've had with this hitch - if I'd gone into it with no preconceived notions of what I thought it should take, I would have just kept adjusting until it was right.

Three of the tires needed replacing before the big trip anyway, so that was a smart upgrade and probably also helped reduce the squirrly-ness.

Lastly, there was a tiny bit of play in the steering that I had initially just written off as being a vehicle with 80k miles on it, but it did really bug me. Play was less than 1/8", but still noticeable and annoying to me, so I found a lot of folks saying the intermediate steering shaft was the culprit. I got one of the re-designed ones for $60, but as I was installing it, I found that the bottom bearing on the upper part of the column assembly had slipped almost all the way out! Amazingly (for a 2015 model year) this is a known issue, and there's actually a TSB out on it - not sure how my '07 GMC managed to go 150,000+ miles without the steering column falling apart but a 2015 Suburban does. Anyway, I fixed that too, and it eliminated almost all of the play, which was also a huge help in making the towing way less work.

Thanks again to everyone who pitched in with suggestions!

[colliehauler]

Jimbee wrote:
When it comes to stability tongue weight is your friend with longer trailers! If your Passport is like mine your fresh water tank is at the front of the camper under the bed. Try towing with the fresh water tank full as this may add enough weight to help with the see-saw affect these longer trailers sometimes are plagued with.

Good luck!

I would agree with this. A good example is look at semi truck trailers, most of the weight is on the back of the truck. RV'S are a compromise with axle placement to not exceed tow vehicle weight ratings.

[colliehauler]

dodge guy wrote:
What is your loaded tongue weight! On my trailer I had too much tongue weight and it pushed my Excursion around o was over 15%! I Moved stuff around to get it to 12% and it towed much better. Sometimes too much tongue weight is as bad as too little. I would also recommend using a Reese Dual Cam hitch.

The Burb can handle that trailer if set up properly with a good sway control hitch.

I would disagree with this as long as the tow vehicle rear axle is not overloaded. I have a Cherokee F-30 and use a Diesel Excursion or my truck. I also have a Cherokee TH that has the axles towards the rear while the F-30 Cherokee axles are closer to the middle. The TH tows like it is on rails behind the truck with lots more tongue weight because of where the axles are located. The F-30 Cherokee does not handle near as well with the axles close to the middle and considerable less tongue weight towed with the same vehicles. Neither trailer exceeds tow vehicle weight ratings which could lead to handling issues as well as unloading the front axle of your tow vehicle, that's where a good Equalizer hitch is involved.