Do we have any recourse?

[MargaretB]

We bought a Forest River/PrimeTime Tracer 230 last fall. It was delivered with three non-operable windows (out of six) and a broken shower door. The dealer ordered the new shower door and replaced it a few months later. We also had him order new windows.

One window has been replaced and works fine. The other two were replaced but don't work.

We took the trailer out in March and while driving up I-5, the secured shower door shattered again. Who puts glass shower doors, even tempered glass, in a trailer???

We took the trailer back to the dealer in May for yet another shower door and two more new windows.

Today we learned that the new shower door doesn't fit right, and of the two windows, one works but harder than the original and the other doesn't work at all.

We mentioned to the very helpful - seriously - service guy that we're fed up with a trailer we've been able to use twice in 8 months. We were told that the dealer would never take it back but would tell us that "everything has its glitches." Yes, but these seem to be unfixable due to lousy design. (In fact, when I called the service guy from the road when the shower door broke, he said that the rep had acknowledged that it's a lousy design.)

So our next step is...? We've put some money into customizing it and adding Stuff like a dry-cell battery. At this point, we want back what we paid for it, since we're not about to travel in a trailer in which 1/3 of the windows don't work.

Any suggestions? TIA.

[RayJayco]

MargaretB wrote:
The dealer had installed a temp rod and curtain when we took delivery, until the new glass doors arrived. I was astonished that anyone would think glass doors, even tempered ones, are a good idea in a movable residential unit.

Windows are glass doors, in essence, and I believe most, if not all RV's have them...

The (wood) door to my master bedroom is on a sliding track and will come off and fly around the room if it is not secured before transit. The sliding door for your shower should have some means of securing it from sliding while in transit...



Glass typically breaks from the edge unless some sort of trauma takes place. That would lead me to believe some part of the edge is not protected from contact with the frame or fasteners...
This theory does exclude the glass being under too much stress from being in a bind as the door would most likely be very hard to move...


It is frustrating to buy something new and have annoying problems and defects.

Fortunately the dealer provided you with a temporary means of showering and having use of the RV as your RV most likely has air conditioning rendering the inoperable windows as something that should be repaired, just not as an emergency basis, unless it is emergency escape windows that have the problem...

It is important to keep in mind that the service representative, et al, is not responsible for causing these problems and often may have their hands tied as to what the hierarchy (His employer, bosses, as well as the manufacturer) will "allow" him to do. Granted that some people do not care how they treat others or the effects they cause...

You do get more flies with honey than salt... I have found that treating people with respect will 'generally' cause them to do all they can to help the situation, even if it is merely advice...

I have also found that when all reasonable manners have been tried to correct a problem, going to the top will often get results. Be it the owners, top management, corporate office, advocates or agencies, etc., depending upon the issue. Dark, smelly stuff flows downhill...


In the interim, enjoy your RV and the functions that make it the reason that you bought it. Stay diligent on the problems, just keep in mind that pressuring and rushing others typically does not yield the best results. Reasonable and respectful...


It has been said that with most services, you have 3 options;
Fast
Cheap
or Done correctly
Choose 2...
You can't have all 3... The "cheap" has already been determined as it is warranty and someone else will pay for it... 😉

I hope that you get your issues resolved to satisfaction! Please let us know.

[scrapnread]

I am not sure if this issue has been resolved to your satisfaction, neither do I know what part of the country you are in. But, if you are in the West or Northwest, I would highly suggest contacting Aaron at the Forest River factory in Dallas Oregon. We had MANY warranty issues with our 2014 Salem and after months of dealing with CW, and another dealer (where we purchased the RV), Aaron facilitated the complete service and repair of our RV and we are very happy.

[2012Coleman]

SoundGuy wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
Soundguy must have a crystal ball. Shame on you for not picking the right dealer.... 😛

My advice is to lean on the dealer and manufacturer heavily. Ask for completion dates and tell the manufacturer that you would like an extension on the warranty. Demand these things pleasantly. The more time it spends on the lot waiting, the less time you have on your warranty.

Don't lay down and take it - demand action!

No one needs a crystal ball to predict what will happen when a customer starts to DEMAND anything. :S Go ahead, P*** *** the very people who are there to help you. :S Deal with the situation rationally and you'd be surprised how helpful the "right dealer" can be ... there's hardly any magic to it. 😉

READ: " Demand these things pleasantly." Dealers often forget who the customer is. If you are afraid to assert your rights, then they get exactly what they want - for you to just go away. Not going to happen to me.

[SoundGuy]

2012Coleman wrote:
Soundguy must have a crystal ball. Shame on you for not picking the right dealer.... 😛

My advice is to lean on the dealer and manufacturer heavily. Ask for completion dates and tell the manufacturer that you would like an extension on the warranty. Demand these things pleasantly. The more time it spends on the lot waiting, the less time you have on your warranty.

Don't lay down and take it - demand action!

No one needs a crystal ball to predict what will happen when a customer starts to DEMAND anything. :S Go ahead, P*** *** the very people who are there to help you. :S Deal with the situation rationally and you'd be surprised how helpful the "right dealer" can be ... there's hardly any magic to it. 😉

[2012Coleman]

MargaretB wrote:
Great that you can do that, but we can't. Our dealer is providing good service but it appears that the manufacturer's parts are defective, since they've installed one window three times and it still won't open. I was asking about what SoundGuy said:

"it's a classic case of why it's so important to pick the right dealer when purchasing a trailer. "

Soundguy must have a crystal ball. Shame on you for not picking the right dealer.... 😛

My advice is to lean on the dealer and manufacturer heavily. Ask for completion dates and tell the manufacturer that you would like an extension on the warranty. Demand these things pleasantly. The more time it spends on the lot waiting, the less time you have on your warranty.

Don't lay down and take it - demand action!

[dadmomh]

So sorry about this...I remember all the work that went into this decision. Tempered glass shower doors are very popular and we never had a problem at all. Windows not opening??? Not acceptable at all. Agree you start climbing the management ladder. These are not just cosmetic issues but huge safety issues. Trailer Life magazine has a section for problems that cannot seem to be resolved. Maybe check into that and see what happens...they usually have pretty good luck. Those 2 trips were mighty pricey....should not be the case. Hope you can get this resolved.

[westend]

MargaretB wrote:

westend wrote:
I would think someone on the manufacturer's staff should be leading the way towards a solution, if it indeed is a mfg. fault. Just off-hand, the shower door situation might be easily fixed by a change in procedure, holding the glass panels apart during transit. It could also be that replacing the glass with acrylic sheet solves the problem. Might be many ways to a different resolution of the problem.

Unless Keystone has every owner complaining about non-operating windows (I don't know whether that is or not the case), then it would seem that MB's trailer has a unique issue. It may be that the frame is not right and by typical installation process, it is racking the window jambs so the window doesn't operate correctly.
I wonder if the OP might know the reason for the windows not operating?

I don't know directly, but the service mgr. told me that the rep told him that the windows were poorly designed and manufactured. I guess they can't use different ones in a rig designed for those, but I wonder how other Tracer 230s are doing with their windows. Right now, two of the six won't open, and one has been replaced three times. Originally, a third one wouldn't open, but they fixed it successfully on the first try.

What ever you're hearing at the dealers relating to other conversations is hearsay and probably skewed to put the dealer in the best light. Take it with a big grain of salt.

I'd suggest to be patient and wait for the newest batch of windows to arrive at your dealership for replacement of your inoperative ones. Having two windows inoperative shouldn't stop you from having a good time with your trailer.

Same with the shower door. Ask the dealer to call you when all the parts have come in and there is a repair time to be scheduled. Again, the faulty door doesn't make the trailer completely unusable. Take it out and enjoy the rest of it.

[MargaretB]

myredracer wrote:


We have the identical shower stall in our KZ Spree (see photo). The problem is not with the glass or anything else, it's the latch. The latch is rather small and perhaps not up to the abuse from movement in a TT. We traveled on a long bumpy and twisty section of road in Wa. a few weeks ago and the latch came undone. We were driving after dusk and did a lot of braking for frequent slow speed corners and due to the weight of the glass, that *might* have forced the glass panels forward often enough to eventually pop the latch (rather than from vertical motion). The glass was slamming back and forth enough to break the handles off the glass but the glass survived fortunately. The latch and glass doors are made by SEA (Shower doors of America). The latch will have an SEA logo on it. Sometimes it's better to contact a 3rd party supplier to an RV manufacturer directly yourself and it may help in this case. Have had to do that before due to our dealer being ridiculous ('nuf said) and got the issue resolved pdq.

The metal frame surround of the shower door should have rubber bump stops on the left and right sides. You should check to see that these are present or not damaged.

For the time being, we are using a bungy cord to hold the glass from moving. Maybe SEA has something better to hold the glass in place? With the SEA latch, you need to make 100% sure you have it in the latched/locked position as it's not immediately obvious by glancing at it. If you have a checklist, you should add this to it so it doesn't happen again.

You should contact the factory in writing to register your warranty issues in case things dragged out (BTDT also). Send the dealer a copy as well. It might be a good idea to follow up with a call to the factory.

It's funny that they cut corners on so many things to save weight on an ultra-lite TT and then they go and use heavy glass in the shower doors. Not sure why they didn't go with plastic. The large, above normal size of the walk-in shower is very nice otherwise.

Yes, it's the totally inadequate latch. It flips down over the knob to supposedly hold the door plates in place. The pane that broke was the outermost one; the other two were intact. So I packing-taped them to the shower wall to get home. Oddly, this happened as we were driving on the Interstate - smooth, straight, daylight, not much traffic.

I assumed, obviously incorrectly, that they would have road-tested every part of the coach before installing it. Guess they didn't.

[MargaretB]

westend wrote:
I would think someone on the manufacturer's staff should be leading the way towards a solution, if it indeed is a mfg. fault. Just off-hand, the shower door situation might be easily fixed by a change in procedure, holding the glass panels apart during transit. It could also be that replacing the glass with acrylic sheet solves the problem. Might be many ways to a different resolution of the problem.

Unless Keystone has every owner complaining about non-operating windows (I don't know whether that is or not the case), then it would seem that MB's trailer has a unique issue. It may be that the frame is not right and by typical installation process, it is racking the window jambs so the window doesn't operate correctly.
I wonder if the OP might know the reason for the windows not operating?

I don't know directly, but the service mgr. told me that the rep told him that the windows were poorly designed and manufactured. I guess they can't use different ones in a rig designed for those, but I wonder how other Tracer 230s are doing with their windows. Right now, two of the six won't open, and one has been replaced three times. Originally, a third one wouldn't open, but they fixed it successfully on the first try.

[MargaretB]

awanatech wrote:
We have a 2007 Forest River/ Rockwood that we bought new. It also had a design issue with the roof when it was new. After taking it to the dealer a couple of times, I contacted Forest River & they were very helpful. We arranged a time & they sent someone to our dealer to take care of the problem where the dealer couldn't get it taken care of. I would suggest contacting Forest River for some assistance in getting this taken care of. Even though it is a documented issue on your camper, it gets much harder to address once it is out of warranty. I would push harder to get the factory rep involved ASAP.

That's a good idea. The dealer has been working with the rep, but we haven't had contact with him. According to the dealer quoting the rep, the design itself is faulty, as is the manufacturing process.

[MargaretB]

awanatech wrote:

MargaretB wrote:
The dealer had installed a temp rod and curtain when we took delivery, until the new glass doors arrived. I was astonished that anyone would think glass doors, even tempered ones, are a good idea in a movable residential unit.

If you are so astonished that anyone would think that glass doors are a good idea, why would you want to spend more time trying to fix what you recognize as a bad idea? Stick with the shower curtain & rod & continue camping.

These are warranty repairs. We asked for plexiglas or some sort of plastic, but that's not the way they designed them. If we were paying for it, I'd put in a rod and curtain. But because of the non-openable windows, we have to spend the time anyway.

[peirek]

MargaretB wrote:
Great that you can do that, but we can't. Our dealer is providing good service but it appears that the manufacturer's parts are defective, since they've installed one window three times and it still won't open. I was asking about what SoundGuy said:

"it's a classic case of why it's so important to pick the right dealer when purchasing a trailer. "

Your statement makes no sense referencing good service. Either the window is OK before installation (checked by dealer) and installed incorrectly or the window is bad before installation which would indicate they are not checking it before installation. Either way I cannot agree you are getting good service. Maybe good lip service.

[lbrjet]

Not sure what our three shower panels are made of, they are slightly flexible and maybe are a hard plastic. No problems in 5 years and 17,000 travel miles. We have a few windows that don't open/close as easily as they used to. Sounds like you have a good dealer trying hard to make things right. Luckily mine has never had to go back to the dealer for anything.

[Bird_Freak]

MargaretB wrote:
I'm not sure we've had bad service. They have been very accommodating. According to what they've told us, the mfr's rep has told them that the shower doors and windows are very poorly designed. They have installed three sets of windows and all seem to be defective from the plant. The service guy we've worked with has been quite helpful. I have no idea what kind of reputation the dealership has, but they seem to be working pretty closely with the rep on our mess. I wouldn't go directly to Forest River without telling the dealer I was doing so. That just seems like a courtesy.

If the windows were defective the tech should have seen that before installing. I think most of your problem is with your dealer you praise in one post and throw under the bus in another. Call the manufacturer and get it fixed.