Dodge - Diesel or gas?

[kohldad]

Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)

My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

[Supercharged]

mike mck wrote:

Supercharged wrote:

kohldad wrote:
Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)


My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

You must remember if you get a gas engine they will look funny at you when you pull in at night in a new camp ground, there will be no lawn chair set out for you. Then on the good side of it, your pickup will not smoke, shake, smell, make all that noise, your fuel will cost 70 cents per gal less than diesel, and not tract on your carpet, diesel repairs are double, and the guy down the street will tell all the neighors you don't understand the power you lost.

Not sure where you are buying your fuel but in North Phoenix I'm at $3.59/gal for diesel while 89 0ctane gas is 3.09 so 50 cents. As you are supercharged figure $3.35/gal so difference is 24 cents. Not to long ago Diesel was the same as gas.
Whether diesel or gas makes since depends on your needs. With the weight of my 11.5 ft Caribou camper and M105A3 trailer Diesel just made sense. I have not found repairs are twice as much but have found they occur half as often. 1999 F550 7.3 powerstroke.
I also own a 94 supercharged F150 lightning.

F550 diesel get the heavy lifting done.
F150 gasser runs the 11 sec 1/4 mile.
Right tool for the right job.

You have 250 post's, your not aload to beat up on me until you get 2000 post's. Every time I go past 17 and the 101 I see your diesel smoke in the air.

[GoinThisAway]

For me driving range would be an important consideration. Taking a leisurely trip with frequent stops is OK but not if the stops have to be at a gas station. To get an acceptable range while loaded with a gasser you'd likely have to increase the fuel capacity so you might want to include this cost in your comparison if you haven't already done so. (I couldn't open your spreadsheet as I haven't loaded Excel on my new laptop yet.)

Another consideration is fire safety where a diesel has an edge.

I notice your drive of my truck didn't win you over to a dually {:-)

[mike_mck]

Supercharged wrote:

kohldad wrote:
Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)


My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

You must remember if you get a gas engine they will look funny at you when you pull in at night in a new camp ground, there will be no lawn chair set out for you. Then on the good side of it, your pickup will not smoke, shake, smell, make all that noise, your fuel will cost 70 cents per gal less than diesel, and not tract on your carpet, diesel repairs are double, and the guy down the street will tell all the neighors you don't understand the power you lost.

Not sure where you are buying your fuel but in North Phoenix I'm at $3.59/gal for diesel while 89 0ctane gas is 3.09 so 50 cents. As you are supercharged figure $3.35/gal so difference is 24 cents. Not to long ago Diesel was the same as gas.
Whether diesel or gas makes since depends on your needs. With the weight of my 11.5 ft Caribou camper and M105A3 trailer Diesel just made sense. I have not found repairs are twice as much but have found they occur half as often. 1999 F550 7.3 powerstroke.
I also own a 94 supercharged F150 lightning.

F550 diesel get the heavy lifting done.
F150 gasser runs the 11 sec 1/4 mile.
Right tool for the right job.

[Supercharged]

FreeLanceing wrote:
I drove a big rig, like in 318 detroit for a few years. Hard to start in the winter, expensive to fix. The worst for me was the smell. After a fill up, after a long haul I could smell the fuel for a long time. When I worked consrtuction they asked if I wanted a gas or diesel, took the gas. Pulling a heavy job trailer with welder etc never looked back, took the gas welder as well. The guys who ran the diesels were always in the shop getting repaired truck or welder. We worked on a partial performance bonus so I was glad to keep the gas. I just bought a new JD subcompact utility tractor 27hp diesel. Now I feel real macho, sounds cool, power up the a, but its hard to start in the cold. My HHR sits next to it in the garage it smells like diesel, the house is starting to smell like diesel. The maintence is 200 bucks to change the oil. We all can rationalise anything we want. If I were buying a truck to haul a camper it would be gas all the way. These new gas motors are so powerfull, effient, the transmision are so much better than just a few years ago. You did not mention the cost diff, nor the cost of feeding the beast. My book, if you never drove one, and you want to look cool and feel mocho diesel. If you have nothing to prove and like to keep your cash in your pocket for other use gas. You wont be disapointed with either.

Why didn't I say that.

[Dog_Folks]

GpnAZ wrote:
I just went from a Dodge gasser to a Dodge diesel and the only thing I can add for the diesel is the longer driving range per tank. My gasser did fine until I tried to tow in the mountains. I've only had my diesel for a week, but really like it and the mileage is better then I expected right out of the box. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

Your diesel mileage will actually improve as you get some miles on it. We get better mileage at 90,000 than we did when new!

[2BLAZERS]

I love my diesel for hauling my camper and toys...

Do you tow and haul with your TC?
Is your TC on the lighter side?

No & yes and a gas motor would be just fine.

If you tow and haul a heavier TC then you'll love diesel. For you, if you can afford the diesel purchase cost I would say go for it. Honestly you'll likely be happy with either one.

[deltabravo]

I should have also said that since I almost always tow a trailer while hauling the camper, a diesel is essential for me.

[billtex]

rooney77 wrote:

FreeLanceing wrote:
I drove a big rig, like in 318 detroit for a few years. Hard to start in the winter, expensive to fix. The worst for me was the smell. After a fill up, after a long haul I could smell the fuel for a long time. When I worked consrtuction they asked if I wanted a gas or diesel, took the gas. Pulling a heavy job trailer with welder etc never looked back, took the gas welder as well. The guys who ran the diesels were always in the shop getting repaired truck or welder. We worked on a partial performance bonus so I was glad to keep the gas. I just bought a new JD subcompact utility tractor 27hp diesel. Now I feel real macho, sounds cool, power up the a, but its hard to start in the cold. My HHR sits next to it in the garage it smells like diesel, the house is starting to smell like diesel. The maintence is 200 bucks to change the oil. We all can rationalise anything we want. If I were buying a truck to haul a camper it would be gas all the way. These new gas motors are so powerfull, effient, the transmision are so much better than just a few years ago. You did not mention the cost diff, nor the cost of feeding the beast. My book, if you never drove one, and you want to look cool and feel mocho diesel. If you have nothing to prove and like to keep your cash in your pocket for other use gas. You wont be disapointed with either.

I have had many different diesels and not one has ever smelled. If it smells something is wrong (like a leak). If you are referring to the exhaust smell, well on older diesels I'll give you that but the newer ones have little to no odor. And I highly doubt that gassers are requiring less repairs than diesels. Diesels are built much stronger. They have to be due to the way the motor works.

If the motor is hard to start in the winter then you probably should have used a block heater. Or maybe cycle the glow plugs more than once. It's not rocket science that in a cold environment, a motor the requires heat to run will need heat put into it.

From many years of owning diesels it sounds like a lot of user error leading to your complaints. They are a different beast and have to approached from a different angle. They aren't harder to deal with, just different.

I can only think that experience with diesels is from 20 years ago!

Winter blends...of all fuels...are always supplied in the appropriate regions. We use our diesel in temps as low as -25* F with no block heater and no issues. These temps are routine in New England winters.
Does Dodge still sell the V10? That would be the way to for a Dodge gasser HD truck...

Go big block or go diesel. The Cummins is an awesome power plant-you can't go wrong there.
IMO running ANY small block in an HD truck is kind of like buying a corvette with a 4 cyl.

[KD4UPL]

I too carry a heavy TC. I've been having this same debate lately. Many of the posts in this thread assume you will be hauling/towing heavy and need the torque of a diesel. If all you'll have is a TC that's like towing a 5,000 pound trailer. Something nearly any V6 1500 truck could do. So, power wise the diesel is completely unnecessary.
My current truck is an '05 Duramax and it has been great. However, the extra $8,000 or whatever it is, combined with more expensive fuel, has me strongly considering a gas engine for the next truck.
The compression braking of a gas engine is very good, probably comparable to some diesels with an exhaust brake. Anyone who is "smelling burning brake pads" doesn't know how to downshift.
In running diesel construction equipment, driving diesel pick-ups, and working for a while as a truck driver I've never had a water in the fuel problem. To me that's a non-issue. Just buy fuel at reliable places and change your filters regularly.
In looking on the Dodge site I think they lower the GVWR for the gas powered dually vs. the diesel one. I can't find that for sure but there are clues. Since it appears to be identical in every way except for the engine I don't know why they would do this. It's one more example of the wacky ways manufacturers sometimes change GVWR. Since I don't worry about those but instead go by the trucking industry standard practice of looking at axle and tire weights so the reduced rating wouldn't bother me.
I think, if you're just going to haul a TC then the gas engine is probably a less costly way to get a truck very capable of the task.

[deltabravo]

JumboJet wrote:
DEF is becoming more available next to the fuel pump and the tank lasts a long time.

I saw some in Wal-Mart yesterday.

[deltabravo]

Here's 204 pages of the gas vs diesel debate:

Sticky: Diesel vs gas.......

[deltabravo]

I have a diesel and wouldn't have it any other way. I don't care that diesel costs more. THe power is essential for how me travelling in the mountains all the time.

"Cool down time"...?? I've never come across that as a concern before.

[Trail_Walker]

Kohldad,
Interesting question. Here is my $0.02 opinion. Based on your spreadsheet, it looks like you would recover your savings in about a year, no matter what the price of fuels do. I took the liberty to adjust the fuel costs in your spreadsheet to what I experience in the southeast. Obviously the higher fuel costs accelerate your recovery. Based on industry heuristics, this would be an acceptable investment because we make decisions based on recovery not savings. If I read your spreadsheet correctly, your six year operating savings were about $3k on a six year cost residual differential of about $3k. ( it took me a minute to understand your filter cell values, F5 and G5, are $). Obviously, you have to keep the truck for 90k because the recovery would be about 13 years after the first year.

That said, I am curious why you'd like to trade in a rather new truck? What would change between your existing and new trucks?

I own a 1996, 12 valve, Cummins that I ordered brand new. I've maintained it myself and just completed a full front end rebuild (2012) and a top end rebuild (2013, replaced head, studs, heavy valve springs, etc.). I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere, with or w/o camper. Yes these maintenance projects were expensive, about $4500 for parts combined. Folks probably think I'm crazy for spending this much money on a 17+ year old truck. However, from the prices I've seen at my local dealership, this is about the sales tax on a new truck!

My truck is no where near as sophisticated as the new models however, I still like it. I also drive a brand new diesel sedan which has all the bells and whistles and I still prefer my old truck. My truck is simple to a fault and very straight forward. No pretense.

In fact, my old 12v is dumb as a stump. Very simple compared to a spark engine (and probably the new compression engines as well). I get excellent mileage for what it is/does (23 unloaded, 17+ with camper). Hard to say how long it will last but I think it will last my lifetime if properly maintained.

It sounds like I'm a diesel proponent, which I am for the reasons mentioned. Here are my answers to your questions;
1. I've never had any problems with water in fuel
2. Never had problems with cool down after heavy towing my 14k equipment trailers. I installed aftermarket gauges to keep things monitored
3. I don't have an exhaust brake, maybe in the future, but installed the heavy valve springs to be ready. I spend most of my time in the southeast which has a minimum of long, steep, grades. Never had a problem with brake wear, pads/rotors, shoes/drums. All my trailers have electric brakes and I run a good controller.
And one other thing, I really like the range I get with a diesel. Can be 600-800 miles depending on if I'm loaded or not. At least one less stop compared to a spark engine.

Good luck with your decision and an early congratulations on your new truck. Let us know your decision.
Dave

[rooney77]

FreeLanceing wrote:
I drove a big rig, like in 318 detroit for a few years. Hard to start in the winter, expensive to fix. The worst for me was the smell. After a fill up, after a long haul I could smell the fuel for a long time. When I worked consrtuction they asked if I wanted a gas or diesel, took the gas. Pulling a heavy job trailer with welder etc never looked back, took the gas welder as well. The guys who ran the diesels were always in the shop getting repaired truck or welder. We worked on a partial performance bonus so I was glad to keep the gas. I just bought a new JD subcompact utility tractor 27hp diesel. Now I feel real macho, sounds cool, power up the a, but its hard to start in the cold. My HHR sits next to it in the garage it smells like diesel, the house is starting to smell like diesel. The maintence is 200 bucks to change the oil. We all can rationalise anything we want. If I were buying a truck to haul a camper it would be gas all the way. These new gas motors are so powerfull, effient, the transmision are so much better than just a few years ago. You did not mention the cost diff, nor the cost of feeding the beast. My book, if you never drove one, and you want to look cool and feel mocho diesel. If you have nothing to prove and like to keep your cash in your pocket for other use gas. You wont be disapointed with either.

I have had many different diesels and not one has ever smelled. If it smells something is wrong (like a leak). If you are referring to the exhaust smell, well on older diesels I'll give you that but the newer ones have little to no odor. And I highly doubt that gassers are requiring less repairs than diesels. Diesels are built much stronger. They have to be due to the way the motor works.

If the motor is hard to start in the winter then you probably should have used a block heater. Or maybe cycle the glow plugs more than once. It's not rocket science that in a cold environment, a motor the requires heat to run will need heat put into it.

From many years of owning diesels it sounds like a lot of user error leading to your complaints. They are a different beast and have to approached from a different angle. They aren't harder to deal with, just different.

[nodepositnoretu]

FreeLanceing wrote:
I drove a big rig, like in 318 detroit for a few years. Hard to start in the winter, expensive to fix. The worst for me was the smell. After a fill up, after a long haul I could smell the fuel for a long time. When I worked consrtuction they asked if I wanted a gas or diesel, took the gas. Pulling a heavy job trailer with welder etc never looked back, took the gas welder as well. The guys who ran the diesels were always in the shop getting repaired truck or welder. We worked on a partial performance bonus so I was glad to keep the gas. I just bought a new JD subcompact utility tractor 27hp diesel. Now I feel real macho, sounds cool, power up the a, but its hard to start in the cold. My HHR sits next to it in the garage it smells like diesel, the house is starting to smell like diesel. The maintence is 200 bucks to change the oil. We all can rationalise anything we want. If I were buying a truck to haul a camper it would be gas all the way. These new gas motors are so powerfull, effient, the transmision are so much better than just a few years ago. You did not mention the cost diff, nor the cost of feeding the beast. My book, if you never drove one, and you want to look cool and feel mocho diesel. If you have nothing to prove and like to keep your cash in your pocket for other use gas. You wont be disapointed with either.

hard to start in cold weather???? unless its -40 degrees i can not believe in this day and age anyone could have a issue with starting a diesel.