Dodge - Diesel or gas?

[kohldad]

Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)

My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

[Gray1Ghost]

I purchased new a 2008 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW CC Laramie 4x4 CTD after repeatedly hearing how Dodge trucks with the CTD got great fuel mileage and should last several hundred thousand miles. The truck cost several thousand dollars more for the CTD engine 6.7. I haul a NL 8'5 and pull a drift boat to the Rockies each year. This truck's exhaust system used a diesel particulate filter and was supposed to "regenerate" itself to cleanse soot from the system. I left for 4 months fishing in the Rockies and Alaska in late May of this year. The first night out the truck died in Louisville, KY. After it was towed to a Dodge/Chrysler dealership it was determined the diesel particulate filter needed to be replaced. If that didn't solve the problem the turbo would have to be replaced. The truck had 3 weeks left on the warranty and 71,000 miles. The price to replace the DPF was $1800 and to replace the turbo was $7000. If I had to pay that out of pocket rather than warranty I would have had to return home.

It took 4 days to repair the truck. The dealer had to order both the DPF and the turbo. I asked them to order both parts the morning my truck arrived at the dealer's but was told Chrysler would not let them order the turbo until replacing the DPF didn't solve the problem. They ordered the DPF, replaced it when it arrived the next day and it didn't solve the problem. Chrysler would not let them order the new turbo until they tried cleaning the old turbo. They sheared a bolt trying to remove the turbo and ended up having to replace it anyway. I suggested to them Chrysler's protocol for repairing the problem was not user friendly as I could have been on my way the second day if they had ordered both parts the first morning. They also initially said they were going to charge me for the cleaning of the turbo, something not in the standard maintenance protocols.

If you search the net for DPF problems and Dodge trucks it will soon be evident to you that Chrysler/Dodge has been aware for some time there is a problem with this generation of engine/exhaust. A class action lawsuit has been filed by dissatisfied owners of this generation of engine/exhaust. I am not a plaintiff in this suit or an attorney. For the price I paid for this truck, I feel Chrysler should have been proactive in notifying owners of the potential problem and they should have come up with a fix to the problem and recalled it. Evidently there is an after market fix in which shops (not Chrysler/Dodge dealerships) remove the exhaust and place chips in the computer telling the engine's computer to ignore certain messages it receives because the exhaust has been modified. This results in improved fuel mileage and eliminates the DPF problem. However, if you have this modification performed it voids the engine's warranty. I never got more than 14 mpg diesel which is significantly less that the previous generation of CTD. The service manager told me the after market fix improves fuel mileage and engine efficiency.

I planned on driving to Alaska then to Deadhorse via the Haul road and also frequent isolated roads near trout streams. I decided I was going to get a new truck rather than take a chance on being stranded again in the Dodge that might cost me $8800 to repair. The Dodge dealership would not give me what I was offered by the GMC dealership in Louisville for my 2008 Ram CTD. I ended up with a GMC 2500 4X4 extended cab gasser SLT. It has more cargo capacity than the Ram did.

I drove the GMC 18,500 miles to AK and back to NC. I got 11 mpg with the gasser as opposed to the 14 I was getting with the Dodge CTD. On 2 grades (1 in Colorado and 1 in Wyoming) I could tell the gasser did not have the power the CTD had. However, the GMC hauled my rig great otherwise, including all over Montana, Washington, Utah, and
Idaho. It also does great in the mountain of NC and Tenn. I do miss the exhaust brake the diesel had. Unless I needed the power of a diesel to haul my rig, I don't think I could justify paying the additional price for the diesel engine and the extra amount per gallon diesel costs in NC (it's usually 50 to 70 cents higher than regular unleaded).


Good luck with your decision and I hope you have many years of fine travel in your new rig.

[Bionic_Man]

Supercharged wrote:
So it looks like I won.

Anyone that reads the forum often knows that the vast majority of your posts are spent trolling. Hardly worth responding to. I am glad you feel like you won.

[2BLAZERS]

Supercharged wrote:
So it looks like I won.

Nope, everyone has a right to their own opinion.

I choose diesel, many others have too.
You choose gas, many others have too.

my camper is about 5K pounds and I also pull a enclosed trailer with toys in that weights about 8K. I would not haul this load with a gas motor. I could but I'd choose more speed and power.

If I had a lighter camper and never towed together with the TC I'd likely choose the big Hemi in the SRW 3500....

[oilslick]

Although the 68RFE is a good transmission the Aisin is way better, you can ONLY get the Aisin with the CTD.

[Supercharged]

So it looks like I won.

[Redsky]

Diesel is better but at a stiff price in initial purchase price, trouble finding a gas station that pumps diesel on backroads and in small towns, added maintenance costs, and problems with bio-diesel and with fuel gelling and water contamination that only happen with diesels.

My diesel truck cost $9,700 more for its diesel engine and Allison transmission over the same truck with a gas engine. For heavy towing the diesel is worth the added expense but it sure as heck is gross overkill for hauling a camper or doing driving around town to go shopping or commute to work.

[Super_Dave]

One of the decission making points I've seen listed a few times here was miles per year driven. I currently drive my truck less than 10,000 miles a year but would never go back to a gasser for any reason. While a gasser MAY do the job, a diesel will always do the job better, IMO.

[rooney77]

Supercharged wrote:

Sue Bee wrote:
You're both being silly, and not helpful. New diesels smoke way less and stink way less than the good old clatter trucks of years past.

To my way of thinking, if you plan on putting many, many miles on the odometer every year, and/or if you plan on hauling or towing heavy items, and if you want your truck to last more than 150-200K, and you plan on keeping it until it pukes, or reselling it at some point further on down the line (like when it has 200K on it), you will recoup the extra cost of the diesel engine, and the exhast brake will make you happy. If you plan on driving it less than 10K a year, aren't doing much heavy hauling or towing, plan on selling it within 6-8 years, go for the gasser.

I sold a 1979 Chev 1500 with a 454 last year, I didn't drive it for the last 10 years is why I sold it. It had 440,000 miles, it had a steel crank, 7 qt. oil pan, only did the values ones, nothing else ever. 3 trans, 3 rad., 6 or 7 starters, but nothing to the motor. It pulled a 36 ft. goose neck around picking up old cars in the late 70's and 80's. I don't see that many diesel doing that today. Paid $7200 for it new sold it for $2500. Cost $3700 to own for 33 years, Gas good, diesel less good.

An entire industry built around hauling things would disagree with you. Diesels by very nature require stouter parts, both as secondary items (transmission) and in regards to their internals. The mechanisms of how they run is also more conducive to longevity and reliability. It's just the way it is.

To use your comparison, I recently sold my 99 7.3L Powerstroke with 428,000 miles on the clock. It still ran like a top. I put one transmission in it and that's all I ever did besides basic maintenance. It did not smoke nor did it smell. It would however leave a quarter sized oil spot after 2 nights of sitting. The interior was falling apart and the body was beat up. It was a farm truck that hauled feed, hay, cattle, firewood.... Everyday was a hard day for that truck. When I sold it, it still got 16mpg empty on the highway.

[Sue_Bee]

Supercharged wrote:
I sold a 1979 Chev 1500 with a 454 last year, I didn't drive it for the last 10 years is why I sold it. It had 440,000 miles, it had a steel crank, 7 qt. oil pan, only did the values ones, nothing else ever. 3 trans, 3 rad., 6 or 7 starters, but nothing to the motor. It pulled a 36 ft. goose neck around picking up old cars in the late 70's and 80's. I don't see that many diesel doing that today. Paid $7200 for it new sold it for $2500. Cost $3700 to own for 33 years, Gas good, diesel less good.

You are talking small sample size anecdote with a 1979 carbureted engine with no pollution control vs large sample size and newer technologies.


Evidence and reason= Good, Anecdotal outlier = outlier.

[bmanning]

It's a tough call; I think the 420hp 6.4L Hemi is going to be a beast, yet we already know the CTD is a beast.

Win/win I say...the less expensive fuel for the 6.4L Hemi will somewhat balance out the better MPG of the CTD...

Since you're buying new you're warrantied either way so I wouldn't waste any time being terrified of expensive repairs on the diesel. I think the water in fuel thing, though a possibility, is extremely unlikely to be an issue so I wouldn't factor that into your decision either.

Longevity? For me that's also a toss-up...modern gas engines can run hundreds of thousands of miles just as diesels do, so that argument doesn't hold up as it did when our fathers had that discussion. Plus, the percentage of those of us who actually keep a truck 300,000mi+ is what, maybe 1-5%?

If money isn't an issue, I'd simply drive both and make the decision based upon which one you enjoyed driving more.

As far as a bigger RV in the future:

Would the CTD be better suited to a very large 5er? Yes.

Would the 6.4L Hemi be able to handle all but the biggest 5ers? Yes.

Only you know the likelihood that you may want the biggest & heaviest of the big & heavy.

[Supercharged]

Sue Bee wrote:
You're both being silly, and not helpful. New diesels smoke way less and stink way less than the good old clatter trucks of years past.

To my way of thinking, if you plan on putting many, many miles on the odometer every year, and/or if you plan on hauling or towing heavy items, and if you want your truck to last more than 150-200K, and you plan on keeping it until it pukes, or reselling it at some point further on down the line (like when it has 200K on it), you will recoup the extra cost of the diesel engine, and the exhast brake will make you happy. If you plan on driving it less than 10K a year, aren't doing much heavy hauling or towing, plan on selling it within 6-8 years, go for the gasser.

I sold a 1979 Chev 1500 with a 454 last year, I didn't drive it for the last 10 years is why I sold it. It had 440,000 miles, it had a steel crank, 7 qt. oil pan, only did the values ones, nothing else ever. 3 trans, 3 rad., 6 or 7 starters, but nothing to the motor. It pulled a 36 ft. goose neck around picking up old cars in the late 70's and 80's. I don't see that many diesel doing that today. Paid $7200 for it new sold it for $2500. Cost $3700 to own for 33 years, Gas good, diesel less good.

[skyhammer]

FreeLanceing wrote:
I drove a big rig, like in 318 detroit for a few years. Hard to start in the winter, expensive to fix. The worst for me was the smell. After a fill up, after a long haul I could smell the fuel for a long time. When I worked consrtuction they asked if I wanted a gas or diesel, took the gas. Pulling a heavy job trailer with welder etc never looked back, took the gas welder as well. The guys who ran the diesels were always in the shop getting repaired truck or welder. We worked on a partial performance bonus so I was glad to keep the gas. I just bought a new JD subcompact utility tractor 27hp diesel. Now I feel real macho, sounds cool, power up the a, but its hard to start in the cold. My HHR sits next to it in the garage it smells like diesel, the house is starting to smell like diesel. The maintence is 200 bucks to change the oil. We all can rationalise anything we want. If I were buying a truck to haul a camper it would be gas all the way. These new gas motors are so powerfull, effient, the transmision are so much better than just a few years ago. You did not mention the cost diff, nor the cost of feeding the beast. My book, if you never drove one, and you want to look cool and feel mocho diesel. If you have nothing to prove and like to keep your cash in your pocket for other use gas. You wont be disapointed with either.

Hard to compare the old 2 stroke Jimmy with a modern engine. 318's were first sold in the late 1930's, the newer V version came out in the late 50's. They stopped making them in 1995.
Jimmy's were famous for leaking everywhere and were very loud. Since they were a 2 stroke, they required a roots blower to bring air into the engine, V versions added a turbo with the blower.
Modern 4 stroke diesels don't have the near the problems the Jimmy had.

[Sue_Bee]

You're both being silly, and not helpful. New diesels smoke way less and stink way less than the good old clatter trucks of years past.

To my way of thinking, if you plan on putting many, many miles on the odometer every year, and/or if you plan on hauling or towing heavy items, and if you want your truck to last more than 150-200K, and you plan on keeping it until it pukes, or reselling it at some point further on down the line (like when it has 200K on it), you will recoup the extra cost of the diesel engine, and the exhast brake will make you happy. If you plan on driving it less than 10K a year, aren't doing much heavy hauling or towing, plan on selling it within 6-8 years, go for the gasser.

[Supercharged]

mike mck wrote:

Supercharged wrote:

mike mck wrote:

Supercharged wrote:

kohldad wrote:
Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)


My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

You must remember if you get a gas engine they will look funny at you when you pull in at night in a new camp ground, there will be no lawn chair set out for you. Then on the good side of it, your pickup will not smoke, shake, smell, make all that noise, your fuel will cost 70 cents per gal less than diesel, and not tract on your carpet, diesel repairs are double, and the guy down the street will tell all the neighors you don't understand the power you lost.

Not sure where you are buying your fuel but in North Phoenix I'm at $3.59/gal for diesel while 89 0ctane gas is 3.09 so 50 cents. As you are supercharged figure $3.35/gal so difference is 24 cents. Not to long ago Diesel was the same as gas.
Whether diesel or gas makes since depends on your needs. With the weight of my 11.5 ft Caribou camper and M105A3 trailer Diesel just made sense. I have not found repairs are twice as much but have found they occur half as often. 1999 F550 7.3 powerstroke.
I also own a 94 supercharged F150 lightning.

F550 diesel get the heavy lifting done.
F150 gasser runs the 11 sec 1/4 mile.
Right tool for the right job.

You have 250 post's, your not aload to beat up on me until you get 2000 post's. Every time I go past 17 and the 101 I see your diesel smoke in the air.

Area is close but seeing my diesel smoke? Nope not mine. Just does not smoke.
Not beating up on you just pointing out a couple flaws in your post.:p

I used to buy 1000 gal or more diesel a month, spend $25,000 per year on repairs on those diesels. It is the smoke that makes drivers keep coming back, it take time away from them and then one can think clearer again.

[mike_mck]

Supercharged wrote:

mike mck wrote:

Supercharged wrote:

kohldad wrote:
Already know my new truck will be a 2014 Dodge SRW Crew Cab 4x4 with auto tranny. What I don't know is if I should go with the new 6.4 or diesel. Worked outthe numbers and the cost for my use of 15k miles/year with 50% TC duty, 25% DD, and 25% errands is only a few hundred difference a year.

So it comes down to the other advantage to decide.

Diesel - all the power and torque could need and then some.

Gas
-no cool down time (important due to lots of stops for sightseeing)
-less weight on the same axles/brakes equals better braking (best I can find, the 6.4 will use the same axles as the diesel)
-less to worry about (no DEF, turbo, etc)


My previous truck was a 92 F350 w/460 auto which I used to pull a 7,000# TT including a trip to Yellowstone and Arches. Never had an issue with power on that truck. So am familiar and comfortable with reving the engine for the power.


Which would you choose and why?

You must remember if you get a gas engine they will look funny at you when you pull in at night in a new camp ground, there will be no lawn chair set out for you. Then on the good side of it, your pickup will not smoke, shake, smell, make all that noise, your fuel will cost 70 cents per gal less than diesel, and not tract on your carpet, diesel repairs are double, and the guy down the street will tell all the neighors you don't understand the power you lost.

Not sure where you are buying your fuel but in North Phoenix I'm at $3.59/gal for diesel while 89 0ctane gas is 3.09 so 50 cents. As you are supercharged figure $3.35/gal so difference is 24 cents. Not to long ago Diesel was the same as gas.
Whether diesel or gas makes since depends on your needs. With the weight of my 11.5 ft Caribou camper and M105A3 trailer Diesel just made sense. I have not found repairs are twice as much but have found they occur half as often. 1999 F550 7.3 powerstroke.
I also own a 94 supercharged F150 lightning.

F550 diesel get the heavy lifting done.
F150 gasser runs the 11 sec 1/4 mile.
Right tool for the right job.

You have 250 post's, your not aload to beat up on me until you get 2000 post's. Every time I go past 17 and the 101 I see your diesel smoke in the air.

Area is close but seeing my diesel smoke? Nope not mine. Just does not smoke.
Not beating up on you just pointing out a couple flaws in your post.:p