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Electric heaters

bristles
Explorer
Explorer
This has probably been asked before, If so, sorry. Getting started early this year. I am looking to add an electric heater to help cut down on the propane use while plugged in. Are there any formula's to know what size heater I should use? Trying to heat 23 feet of camper and only help not over ride the furnace.
50 REPLIES 50

parker_rowe
Explorer
Explorer
toedtoes wrote:
I'm going to argue that if a portable heater is causing your breakers to trip, then you've got a wiring problem.

Now if you routinely run multiple high usage items at the same time on one circuit then that's different. But just a portable heater during the night should not trip your breaker.


I never did have a problem with that. Just seemed easy enough to run a dedicated cord for the heater since there was plenty of room on the electrical post.

Probably wasn't necessary.
2015 Starcraft TravelStar 239TBS 6500 GVWR
1997 GMC Suburban K2500 7.4 Vortec/4.10
1977 Kawasaki KZ1000

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
GordonThree,

I had almost no issues with cable length. I replaced all the OEM outlets and added boxes except for the GFCI in the bathroom. It would have been a problem as it is on an outside wall and is a quasi surface mount item.

I did add an extra box in the kitchen because of cable length. I use it for a light in the cabinet.

I did have to "build up" one surface mount outlet in the bedroom because the other side of the wall is the shower.

I added an additional 20 amp and 15 amp shore power cords. My peak power use is 7000 watts. My continuous load does not exceed 80% of the total capacity.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

toedtoes
Explorer II
Explorer II
I'm going to argue that if a portable heater is causing your breakers to trip, then you've got a wiring problem.

Now if you routinely run multiple high usage items at the same time on one circuit then that's different. But just a portable heater during the night should not trip your breaker.
1975 American Clipper RV with Dodge 360 (photo in profile)
1998 American Clipper Fold n Roll Folding Trailer
Both born in Morgan Hill, CA to Irv Perch (Daddy of the Aristocrat trailers)

parker_rowe
Explorer
Explorer
BarneyS wrote:
We did not have a problem with the electric plugs in our trailer getting warm but with all the cool weather we had down in Florida several years ago we needed a way to run our electric heater without going through the trailers electrical system. I put in a waterproof outside receptical and an inside outlet in the side of our slide out. Now we can run the electric heater or other higher usage items like toaster or frying pan without worrying about tripping the trailers breaker when we turn on the water heater or air conditioner at the same time.
Works great!

The device that I used was this one from West Marine.
Barney





Quite a simple mod.


Nice. We used a oil space heater for out Thanksgiving camping trip, I just ran a dedicated extension cord under the slide out dinette seat and out the storage door.

I love your setup as a more permanent solution.

Worked great in 20 degree weather with all 3 tent beds open (we have a hybrid) and didn't have to worry about tripping breakers in the camper.

Worth every penny of the $40 bucks the heater cost me, with a timer and a remote!
2015 Starcraft TravelStar 239TBS 6500 GVWR
1997 GMC Suburban K2500 7.4 Vortec/4.10
1977 Kawasaki KZ1000

GordonThree
Explorer
Explorer
How are opponents of the SCD replacing them with traditional outlets?

I replaced one of mine and had to pull back the too short cable to a spot I could place a junction box, then pull a longer piece of Romex,then patch the old hole, install a surface mount junction box, etc. So much work. Can't imagine doing that for every outlet.
2013 KZ Sportsmen Classic 200, 20 ft TT
2020 RAM 1500, 5.7 4x4, 8 speed

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
The OP asked about a particular type of permanently mounted electric heater which would normally be hardwired but the discussion has morphed into whether or not SCD recepts are safe.

SCD type receptacles as used in RVs must meet the extremely rigorous and extensive requirements of the 294 page document, UL 498 which includes things like heat and vibration testing. Heat testing for ex., is done with 500 cycles of 1-1/2 hour on and 1/2 hour off of 40 amps for 15 amp recepts. wired with #14.

Again, there are millions of the exact same receptacles used in mobile homes without problems. IMO, problems with them in RVs is likely to be improper installation at the factory.

Sorry, but folks afraid of SCD devices is just unfounded paranoia by people who aren't qualified professionals in the field who work with the NEC.

ScottG
Nomad
Nomad
pianotuna wrote:
Fast but not so safe.

https://youtu.be/3wcdblWPGKE


Very misleading post - that is a totally different connection and no one is suggesting that type be used in a RV (because of vibration).

But if you want to see a real current loading comparison using the same type of connection you showed:
link

( I can save you some time, the connection you showed is actually better than the wire itself. The wire burns in half first)

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Fast but not so safe.

https://youtu.be/3wcdblWPGKE
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

JesLookin
Explorer
Explorer
dfm wrote:
We have been using a Vornado electric heater for the past several years. It circulates the heat very well with a large, quiet fan, and has a thermostat and adjustable heat output. We have been very pleased with its' performance during temps down to as low as the high 30's in our 30ft trailer. You can barely hear the fan running when it is on high position.

X2

X3
A high quality heater costs more, but once you use one you know it is money well spent.
2013 Arctic Fox 27-5L
2014 Ram 3500 6.7L CTD, Crew Cab

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Great advice.

Lynnmor wrote:
I got rid of my insulation displacement connectors and sleep very well knowing that the wiring is held in place by being wrapped around a screw and tightened. Jamming a copper wire into a slot makes for a connection dependent on a sheared edge holding it with just the spring tension of the part. I took my own good advice and took out the trash.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Lynnmor
Explorer
Explorer
I got rid of my insulation displacement connectors and sleep very well knowing that the wiring is held in place by being wrapped around a screw and tightened. Jamming a copper wire into a slot makes for a connection dependent on a sheared edge holding it with just the spring tension of the part. I took my own good advice and took out the trash.

ScottG
Nomad
Nomad
pianotuna wrote:
Hi ScottG,

That is truly bad advice. Have you actually inspected a stab connector after it has been used for 1 month of constant use? I have, and it isn't pretty.

The stab connectors are garbage. Get rid of them if it is possible.

ScottG wrote:
Never had any problems with the so-called "Stab connectors" in any RV and running a space heater. Been doing so for a couple of decades and never had one get warm. They are UL and CSA rated for the full load just like normal residential outlets and there are 10's of millions of RV's using them without issue.
So I would not worry about changing the outlets, just monitor for heat like you should with any space heater.


No it's realistic advice and not just old forum wives tales.
And yes, I have taken apart one of those outlets that I used for years to power a space heater. I did so in order to add another outlet.
Our new TT has them as well. Ran the heater last season and kept checking the outlet. It was never even warm and this was in a slideout.
DO you realize that commercial buildings use a very similar connection for everything? No problems there either.
And I can posts pics all day of normal outlets that have overheated - proves nothing.
The proof is in the fact that forum members use them every single day without issue.

It's very bad advice to tell people to just get rid of them since there is no acceptable way to replace them with common outlets in most cases.

dfm
Explorer
Explorer
We have been using a Vornado electric heater for the past several years. It circulates the heat very well with a large, quiet fan, and has a thermostat and adjustable heat output. We have been very pleased with its' performance during temps down to as low as the high 30's in our 30ft trailer. You can barely hear the fan running when it is on high position.

X2
2015 Open Range 340 FLR
2012 Ram3500 Laramie Longhorn/Cummins
1 DW 1 Furperson

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
ScottG wrote:
Never had any problems with the so-called "Stab connectors" in any RV and running a space heater. Been doing so for a couple of decades and never had one get warm. They are UL and CSA rated for the full load just like normal residential outlets and there are 10's of millions of RV's using them without issue.
So I would not worry about changing the outlets, just monitor for heat like you should with any space heater.


^^^ I completely agree with this. The problem is not with these SCD "self-contained receptacles" in themselves. There's millions of them out there in mobile homes without issue in addition to being installed in RVs.

The problem is that the factories sometimes don't install them properly according to the manufacturer's directions. I've had some in 3 TTs now that only had 1/2 the internal "stab" connections on the hot and/or neutral plus I found 2 in our current TT with reversed polarity. There is a special tool for punching down the wires onto the stabs. You can use a screwdriver and/or pliers to push the wires in but you have to be very careful. The cover on the back can be a challenge to get full on also. The photo below is what I found in a previous TT and it and any downstream recepts. are only good for 7 1/2 amps. The installer clearly did not use the SCD tool. :M These recepts. are NOT for amateur wannabe electricians. Unless you pull yours out for inspection, you'll have no idea if they were correctly installed.

A real problem with electrical in RVs as I see it is that, although all electrical work must comply with the NEC and various associated standards and regulations, there is no oversight by an AHJ and there is nobody to file a complaint with if you find problems. Therefore the factories can turn out unacceptable workmanship without impunity and which in some cases can even be dangerous.

Having said the above, it is possible it's better and safer to plug a heater into an RV type recept. that is maybe the 1st or 2nd in line on a circuit. You'd need to pull all recepts. on a circuit out to figure that out tho. A heater (depending on wattage) is going to be better off on a dedicated circuit and if you're going to install a new recept., might as well go with a residential side-wired type in a box, if you have depth for the box for piece of mind. A hardwired heater would of course be best.

IMO, the SCD type receptacles are better than the common residential ones where you strip a wire and push it into a hole.

rbpru
Explorer
Explorer
Our TT is 10 years old and we have never had any electrical receptacle issues with hair dryers, micro waves, toasters, coffee makers etc. in any of the outlets.

The RV industry has enough issues without inventing more. That is like blaming the toilet maker because the worker used too long of a down tube and it would not flush properly.

With regards to the OPs question, I believe our electric ceramic heater cost around $20.00 so trying one is not going to break the bank.

As mentioned the oil filled unit are nice but a bit bulky for our under the table use.
Twenty six foot 2010 Dutchmen Lite pulled with a 2011 EcoBoost F-150 4x4.

Just right for Grandpa, Grandma and the dog.