FCA(Marchionne) says diesel is dead

[Travlingman]

Doesn't look good for those of us who like diesels. Sounds like the pollution controls are killing it. Article

[Bedlam]

Bobbo wrote:
I want to preface this by saying I have never owned a diesel. However, from the reading I have done, it seems to me that one of the major draws of a diesel over a gasser is the high torque at lower RPM's. My Ford 3.5l EcoBoost engine produces 375 hp at 5,000 RPM, but it has its maximum torque much lower. It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM. I can get the diesel-like low range torque without the front end expense of a diesel, the higher maintenance costs, the astronomical repair costs, and the higher fuel costs. Sure, it gets lower mpg, but that is a trade off I am willing to accept. On top of that, it has 2 turbochargers that reduce the power loss at altitude for those times I am in the Rocky Mountains.

The advantage of diesel for me is the steady torque curve. Even when I had a little naturally aspirated model with less than 60 hp, it was capable of towing my fiberglass travel trailer through the Sierra Nevada's. I compare gas to diesel like a 2-stroke to 4-stroke: the two stroke has a lot of potential at higher revolutions in a narrow band, while the four stroke has less peak and spreads power over wider band. The 4-stroke attributes seem to follow this comparison against a diesel. Once forced induction is introduced, smaller displacement is required to make the same power and power can be generated at lower revolutions - This doesn't matter what type of engine is being boosted.

[Me_Again]

blofgren wrote:

Bobbo wrote:
I want to preface this by saying I have never owned a diesel. However, from the reading I have done, it seems to me that one of the major draws of a diesel over a gasser is the high torque at lower RPM's. My Ford 3.5l EcoBoost engine produces 375 hp at 5,000 RPM, but it has its maximum torque much lower. It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM. I can get the diesel-like low range torque without the front end expense of a diesel, the higher maintenance costs, the astronomical repair costs, and the higher fuel costs. Sure, it gets lower mpg, but that is a trade off I am willing to accept. On top of that, it has 2 turbochargers that reduce the power loss at altitude for those times I am in the Rocky Mountains.

True, but I don't think it would do well with my 16k lbs fiver....;)

What ^^^^ he said!

We may quit towing the 5th wheel South next fall, but the RAM 3500 will still make the trip bobtail at over 20 MPG, should it happen, tonnage wins in wrecks. We enjoy the creature comforts of the CC Laramie package.

[blofgren]

Bobbo wrote:
I want to preface this by saying I have never owned a diesel. However, from the reading I have done, it seems to me that one of the major draws of a diesel over a gasser is the high torque at lower RPM's. My Ford 3.5l EcoBoost engine produces 375 hp at 5,000 RPM, but it has its maximum torque much lower. It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM. I can get the diesel-like low range torque without the front end expense of a diesel, the higher maintenance costs, the astronomical repair costs, and the higher fuel costs. Sure, it gets lower mpg, but that is a trade off I am willing to accept. On top of that, it has 2 turbochargers that reduce the power loss at altitude for those times I am in the Rocky Mountains.

True, but I don't think it would do well with my 16k lbs fiver....;)

[FishOnOne]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Me Again wrote:
The next Cummins version in a RAM truck is going to have all emission stuff post engine. This engine will be in the 2020 trucks or maybe a little earlier.

True DAT, I spoke to a Lady at the Cummins plant that was working on the project in 2016. She had the "Cat that ate the Canary" look on her face when she spoke to me about it! She said it was to debut in the 2019 model year. This would align with the Cummins 100 year anniversary and the 30 year Cummins/RAM relationship.

Stage 5 emissions is old news from cummins that will be released 2019, but that hasn't stopped many from converting to gas. UPS trucks continue to switch from diesel to natural gas engines which cummins also provides. At work I haven't heard a cummins diesel powered UPS for quite some time now. And yes Macaroni is right the trend to gas continues. A oil/gas service company that services some of our wells just completed converting their ram diesel trucks to gas hemi trucks because of the repair costs and downtime.

Stage 5 Emissions

[dodge_guy]

FishOnOne wrote:

Tyler0215 wrote:
I sure wouldn't listen to that clown. He's almost run Chrysler into the ground.

And everyone else after Lee Iacocca.

The Man

The worst was Daimler. At least FCA is keeping it going!

[dodge_guy]

djousma wrote:
It's just one guys opinion. Heck, I just came back from a week in Honduras, and almost every vehicle there was a diesel. My rental, a Chevy Captiva had a peppy little diesel in it too.

Yep and those have no pollution controls.

[Bobbo]

I want to preface this by saying I have never owned a diesel. However, from the reading I have done, it seems to me that one of the major draws of a diesel over a gasser is the high torque at lower RPM's. My Ford 3.5l EcoBoost engine produces 375 hp at 5,000 RPM, but it has its maximum torque much lower. It produces 470 lb-ft of torque at 2250 to 3500 RPM. I can get the diesel-like low range torque without the front end expense of a diesel, the higher maintenance costs, the astronomical repair costs, and the higher fuel costs. Sure, it gets lower mpg, but that is a trade off I am willing to accept. On top of that, it has 2 turbochargers that reduce the power loss at altitude for those times I am in the Rocky Mountains.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Fordlover wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Johno02 wrote:
Plus lots higher maintenance costs.

My diesel never was higher in maintenance costs than my gas trucks.

To be fair, the newest breed of Diesel is a far cry from the good old simple Diesel engine. It's incredibly difficult to go out and buy a new pre-emissions Diesel 1 ton these days in the States.

And todays gas engines aren't? :R LOL
DI engines
Turbos
Cam phasers
Multi cam engines
Multi valve engines
High pressure injectors
5 miles of cam chains
Muti fuel sensors and fuel systems

I've owned both and "my" diesel engines cost less to operate overall than my gas engines. Not a lot, but less. And they sure as hell pulled a LOT better.

[john_bet]

Fordlover wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Johno02 wrote:
Plus lots higher maintenance costs.

My diesel never was higher in maintenance costs than my gas trucks.

To be fair, the newest breed of Diesel is a far cry from the good old simple Diesel engine. It's incredibly difficult to go out and buy a new pre-emissions Diesel 1 ton these days in the States.

Come and make an unreasonable $$$ offer for my 5.9L. It's for sale or will be traded off in the next week or so.

[womps]

drsteve wrote:

Ductape wrote:
As a CEO, he's a fool to disparage the future of one of their most profitable product lines.

As a CEO, he also has far more information than any of us.

But just because he has the information it isn’t necessarily wise to share it. Future buyers who are waiting for the new Ram diesel might now jump ship to the baby Powerstroke or baby Duramax.

[Learjet]

I think the reference is to small diesels...we still need diesel Ram trucks and there is still a market for them going forward.

The tech always gets better.

[drsteve]

Ductape wrote:
As a CEO, he's a fool to disparage the future of one of their most profitable product lines.

As a CEO, he also has far more information than any of us.

[Ductape]

As a CEO, he's a fool to disparage the future of one of their most profitable product lines.

[Cummins12V98]

Me Again wrote:
The next Cummins version in a RAM truck is going to have all emission stuff post engine. This engine will be in the 2020 trucks or maybe a little earlier.

True DAT, I spoke to a Lady at the Cummins plant that was working on the project in 2016. She had the "Cat that ate the Canary" look on her face when she spoke to me about it! She said it was to debut in the 2019 model year. This would align with the Cummins 100 year anniversary and the 30 year Cummins/RAM relationship.

[Fordlover]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Johno02 wrote:
Plus lots higher maintenance costs.

My diesel never was higher in maintenance costs than my gas trucks.

To be fair, the newest breed of Diesel is a far cry from the good old simple Diesel engine. It's incredibly difficult to go out and buy a new pre-emissions Diesel 1 ton these days in the States.