Finally Common Sense in California (No Shows at Campgrounds)

[adamis]

We've all experience rhe phenomena of trying to get reservations at an extremely busy campground. Trying multiple different dates and lengths in the reservation system only to be told the campground is full by the system. You keep checking back constantly and manage to find a site that opens up at the last minute and you rush to grab it and feel quite fortunate. When you roll into the campground you check in and feel quite good that your persistence paid off to get that one lucky spot. Then, you drive around the campground headed to your spot and notice several empty sites on the way. No worries you think, those people just haven't arrived yet, they will fill up. You keep an eye on those sites as you enjoy your trip and the day you pack up you note that many of those sites stayed open even though there where reservation tags on them. Yup... No shows...

Now, most of us truck camper folks like going off grid anyway to avoid the crowds. Even with our preference to avoid the crowds, there are still times when we need to use regular campgrounds from time to time. I've had several times where plans changed and I am trying find a campground with space, only to be told there is no space available. Knowing full well that a good percentage of people are going to be no shows but I am being turned away anyway.

Someone in the California legislature has noticed this as well and proposed a bill to penalize these no show folks. This is great news for the system! There is a commitment problem within society where people just don't keep their commitments any longer. This won't solve that problem but it will ar least penalize some of them who take advantage of a lenient system at the expense of others.

https://www.rvtravel.com/finally-penalizing-shows-california-1092b/

[joeshmoe]

adamis wrote:
We've all experience rhe phenomena of trying to get reservations at an extremely busy campground. Trying multiple different dates and lengths in the reservation system only to be told the campground is full by the system. You keep checking back constantly and manage to find a site that opens up at the last minute and you rush to grab it and feel quite fortunate. When you roll into the campground you check in and feel quite good that your persistence paid off to get that one lucky spot. Then, you drive around the campground headed to your spot and notice several empty sites on the way. No worries you think, those people just haven't arrived yet, they will fill up. You keep an eye on those sites as you enjoy your trip and the day you pack up you note that many of those sites stayed open even though there where reservation tags on them. Yup... No shows...

Now, most of us truck camper folks like going off grid anyway to avoid the crowds. Even with our preference to avoid the crowds, there are still times when we need to use regular campgrounds from time to time. I've had several times where plans changed and I am trying find a campground with space, only to be told there is no space available. Knowing full well that a good percentage of people are going to be no shows but I am being turned away anyway.

Someone in the California legislature has noticed this as well and proposed a bill to penalize these no show folks. This is great news for the system! There is a commitment problem within society where people just don't keep their commitments any longer. This won't solve that problem but it will ar least penalize some of them who take advantage of a lenient system at the expense of others.

Now if we would or could do the same to the govt for its failing of commitments.

Not sure that this required legislative action, but whatever. Less govt is my approach.

[StirCrazy]

Grit dog wrote:
All that can be said is it’s a start….not a very effective one it seems but maybe it will keep some of the gamers from hogging sites.

I just wish I had this issue….lol. Seems like a first world problem. And I’d be happy just to have enough time and the ability to camp enough that this made my radar for things that irk me…hahaha.

I think that compounds it even more.. if I was retired and had the time I could camp during the middle of the week and have no issues for the most part, but now with the wife and myself still working we only have spicific times we can take the 5th wheel out for a while and finding sites the last 4 years has been very hard if at all. with the truck and camper (which the last three years since I bought the camper we have been using way more than the 5th wheel) we usaly don't have an issue as we don't need a spicific size site to fit in, and we have been checking out a lot more of the rec sites whre no reservations are allowed as you can get a trailer into, well not if you cre about your trailer haha... my perdisction is this is a effect of covid like the increase of trailer sales and like trailer sales it should drop and get better again... hopefully I'm right

[mbloof]

Ahhh yes the reservation systems or lack there of...

Back in the day when you wished to go camping - you just went!! There were simply more campgrounds and spots then people wanting them. Everything was first come first serve.

However on 'popular' dates/campgrounds/areas things might get more than a little troublesome. While sometimes you could 'shift' or 'pre-extend' your trip by showing up 1 then 2 and then 3 days early to get a spot there might be times when you could not do that and/or even doing that was pointless.

Then comes what we call "the parade".

The seemingly endless stream of would be campers driving though the campground(s) looking for a open spot. Sadly many/most of which will be forced to simply drive home as there is no available spots in the area at all.

IDK about the rest of you but logging a multi hour trip to simply VIEW where you can't camp and repeating it in reverse is NOT something I'd like to do - ever.

Add in the complexity that many RV's might require a minimum driveway length and can't seemingly park almost anywhere like car campers and most of us truck campers and folks start looking for and demanding reservation systems.

Around here most campgrounds have reservation systems and most have sites that are saved for FCFS campers.

Then the frustration in actually getting a reservation! With short seasons and reservation "windows" an entire campground can get fully reserved within MINUTES of the window opening!!

While more remote and primitive sites generally fill slower than easy access sites, (and some don't have reservation systems) "Boondocking" requires no reservations.

It seems to me that cancelations you always forfeit the reservation fee and if you don't cancel with enough time for someone else to reserve it, at least 1 day of rental.



- Mark0.

[Grit_dog]

All that can be said is it’s a start….not a very effective one it seems but maybe it will keep some of the gamers from hogging sites.

I just wish I had this issue….lol. Seems like a first world problem. And I’d be happy just to have enough time and the ability to camp enough that this made my radar for things that irk me…hahaha.

[Durb]

run100 wrote:


Yes, unexpected things happen and some well intentioned campers are unable to arrive as planned, but I believe they are the exception.

Absolutely, the systems are being gamed for certain campers' convenience to the detriment of the rest; many here on this forum.

I cancelled last minute a reservation at a Washington State park to do some razor clamming. Seven inches of rain was forecasted to blow in over the weekend and our campsite was low-lying. I paid the meager penalty and wouldn't have minded if it was a couple of hundred dollars for a no show. As a matter of fact, I might have sat in the torrential rain for $200 and shown up!

[run100]

We've been active campers for about 30-years. Never used to make reservations, but also never had trouble getting a campsite. Times have changed, so we now often reserve sites. Definitely has pros & cons.

It's frustrating to see idle resources when there are consumers ready, and willing, to pay for them. Empty campsites during busy times is such a waste. Imagine a generously stocked food buffet, and hungry people anxious to the buy the food, but it's being saved for those that never show up. The food goes wasted and dumped in the trash - - so sad. Empty campsites are the same in my view.

Yes, unexpected things happen and some well intentioned campers are unable to arrive as planned, but I believe they are the exception.

I think if a reserved site is a no-show, the site should be released the next morning and all fees forfeited (non-refundable). However, convenient systems need to be in place to allow campers to cancel their reservation when something comes up. That's a whole topic all by itself!

[StirCrazy]

mkirsch wrote:
...because the no-shows are all intentional, right? They reserved that site just to deny little old you the privilege of using it and didn't show up just to rub your face in it.

Maybe they had a breakdown on the way and couldn't make it. Maybe there was a family emergency and the last thing on their minds was to cancel the reservation.

Thought California was supposed to be the state of the bleeding heart. You're supposed to empathize with the no-show, not hold them responsible.

what happens up hre in our popular national parks and a lot of the provincial parks is people will book blocks of time in a site, then cancel the days they don't want at the last min. last year when I tried to get a site in banff for the 5th wheel I logged on 5 min before the opening of the reservation system and by the time I got my turn there was nothing between may and september availble.

the same thing happens with the BC provincial parks. except they have changed it so the most you can book ahead is 2 months so they are starting to do things to help the sistuations. personaly I have never seen parks so busy and I am putting this down to a pandemic caused issue. alot of "rv rental" companies poped up where they tow the rv out to the campground and you just show up.. so I suspect these companies were booking sites all over the provence in blocks for their business.

then if no one booked for that campground they would cancle it two days before to get back there fees aside from the cancelation fee and such.
the problem with this is you have to reserve a site by 8pm two days prior to the day you arive so it they cancle that day you cant reserve it.. thoes are the ones that you can camp in as the park staff will know its cancled and put you there as long as your gone before the next reservation.

[mkirsch]

...because the no-shows are all intentional, right? They reserved that site just to deny little old you the privilege of using it and didn't show up just to rub your face in it.

Maybe they had a breakdown on the way and couldn't make it. Maybe there was a family emergency and the last thing on their minds was to cancel the reservation.

Thought California was supposed to be the state of the bleeding heart. You're supposed to empathize with the no-show, not hold them responsible.

[bigfootford]

mike/kellie wrote:
Somewhat related, we were leaving the TCA rally in Quartzsite ( nice seeing 3tons and BFFord again!) to occupy a site in Joshua Tree reserved online (the good part) however the lone individual who runs the point of sales at Cottonwood Campground called in sick. Fortunately we have the lifetime senior pass for NPs and we coasted in. Others who needed to pay for an open spot or any merch within the visitors center was out of luck. Other employees were not trained or allowed access to the register. A lot of apologies were given put that day-

Haw, thanks for finding us at the Q Rally. We had a great time.

Jim n Sheila

[mike_kellie]

Somewhat related, we were leaving the TCA rally in Quartzsite ( nice seeing 3tons and BFFord again!) to occupy a site in Joshua Tree reserved online (the good part) however the lone individual who runs the point of sales at Cottonwood Campground called in sick. Fortunately we have the lifetime senior pass for NPs and we coasted in. Others who needed to pay for an open spot or any merch within the visitors center was out of luck. Other employees were not trained or allowed access to the register. A lot of apologies were given put that day-

[Grit_dog]

Learn somethin new every day. Didn’t know you could reserve a no reservations, first come first serve campsite!

[monkey44]

StirCrazy wrote:

monkey44 wrote:
The unfortunate part of most reservation systems -- even if you want an open site for one night while traveling, the reservation fee still applies. That means the campsite is more expensive overall and often leaves one or more empty that would otherwise generate revenue.

We've seen a lot of empty campsites - state and NPS - over the past few years even when the CG says full.

When we think about senior and veteran and disabled discounts, then paying the reservation fee for one night nearly clears the discount for those that earned or qualify for the discounts.

here if you don't arive by 11am the day after your reservation is for it is cancled and can be opened for that period for FCFS as you have to book a site a minimum of 2 days prior to your arival in the reservation system.

Last year, we were at Cades Cove NP-CG in Great Smokys we booked a first come, no reservation CG Site mid-week for two days. Ranger told us beginning Monday - we still could get empty unreserved sites but also had to pay the reservation fee to book for one or two nights, and no Cash, only CC accepted. We haven't been back in that area since so don't know if that actually took effect. We were in Everglades NP several weeks later. In order to book for two days, we had to pay reservation fee - no cash, and use CC only to pay. Six sites in one camping lane were open when we arrived, we took one. Five were still open when we left two days later. All five were not reserved, and still first-come, and still empty and available for first come. ???

We have been camping all over USA for over fifty years. We have never made a reservation. Likely, pretty soon - maybe already - that will be unavailable as the parks try to accomodate the upturn in Camping with the added RV factor that's increasing month by month, and the reservation system appears unable to accomodate first-come for open sites.

[StirCrazy]

monkey44 wrote:
The unfortunate part of most reservation systems -- even if you want an open site for one night while traveling, the reservation fee still applies. That means the campsite is more expensive overall and often leaves one or more empty that would otherwise generate revenue.

We've seen a lot of empty campsites - state and NPS - over the past few years even when the CG says full.

When we think about senior and veteran and disabled discounts, then paying the reservation fee for one night nearly clears the discount for those that earned or qualify for the discounts.

here if you don't arive by 11am the day after your reservation is for it is cancled and can be opened for that period for FCFS as you have to book a site a minimum of 2 days prior to your arival in the reservation system.

[2oldman]

Move to General.