kzspree320 wrote:
Turtle n peeps - As a very general statement what you says has some merit. The problem is, it's a vast oversimplification to a very complex situation. HP alone is not enough. Torque alone is not enough. Transmission gearing alone is not enough. Rear axle gearing is not enough. The truck programming is not enough. The gas truck that wins the drag race at sea level might not be the same one that wins at 5,000 feet. The fastest to the top of Davis Dam might not be the fastest to the top of the Ike Gauntlet. It's a combination of HP, torque, elevation, transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, truck programming, grade, length of grade, elevation, etc.
If we assume manufacturers using the J2807 standard rate the pickups at the max they can tow at no less than 40 mph up Davis Dam (which is the standard), then why is the Ram with 6.4 hemi and 4.10 rear end (which lost the race) rated to pull 15,640 lbs and the Ford F250 with 6.2 and 3.73 (which is the configuration that won the race) rated to pull 12,600 lbs (both in 4X4 and crew cab configurations). An educated guess would be the Ram would win if pulling 15,000 lbs. If pulling 12,000 lbs who knows.
Again, in general you are right. But if drag racing were the "be all end all", manufacturers are wasting many millions trying to find the best all around combination of factors for towing in a wide variety of situations. I'm done on this subject and stand by my first statement I made when you said "the winner of the drag race would be the first to the top the mountain". That's just wrong. It's a vast oversimplification.
Oversimplification? Yep, I agree.
Sorry, I don't have time to write a book on the subject in this forum and that's about what it would take.
The reason one vehicle might win a tow race up DD but not on Ike is simple; HP to the ground for the length of the test. For some reason it's not putting as much HP to the ground. It really is that simple. It's the same thing if I lose a drag race to a car that weights the same as mine and has the same aero package as mine. He is putting out more HP to the ground than I did. Pure and simple as that. I could snivel that I spun on the line or whatever but the simple fact is the other guy put down more HP than I did for some reason.
In the video I linked the EB put down more HP to the wheels than the ED or the V8 Chevy. It would have done a WHOLE bunch better if they would have had their tow off on the Ike because the EB is turbocharged.
If your comparing a N/A gas to a turbo diesel, it's simple. A N/A engine loses about 3% of it's HP / 1000Ft. If the T-diesel and the gas had the same amount of HP at sea level the gas would lose about 30%+ of it's HP around the top of Ike. That's a BUNCH! The TD would lose next to nothing! That's nothing.
Unless DOT or whoever steps in, this HP thing is going to get very confusing. The manufactures could program an engine to put out 600 HP for one minute and then derate to 400 HP after that. But they will print on the advertisement that their truck will put out 600 HP. They are already doing it with torque to the wheels. Their toy U-joints or axels or anything after the crank can't hold up so they computer limit the torque to the rear wheels so they won't break parts.
~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~
"Life is not tried ~ it is merely survived ~ if you're standing
outside the fire"
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