Give them somewhat of a break

[samhain7]

I am posting this here because it is one of the few forums I look at.

I see a lot of critical reviews of people and their choice of trailer or TV and the research they do. I only ask that we give them a break.
I did a little experiment and went to two different Dodge dealerships and spoke with a multitude of people. Neither of which gave me the correct information. I positioned myself as a CURRENT truck owner who was curious about it's capabilities, so no one can say they were just trying to make a sale. Either way of all the people I spoke to, I got 90% incorrect information. The last guy even told me that tongue weight does not decrease from the payload. I saw calculators, papers, pamphlets...everything...they all really went out of their way to help, just didn't get much right. I spurned a lot of conversations in offices between sales guys, managers and service dept while I was there. Still, not a lot of correct information.
Even on this forum, there was a recent conversation on the ratings which caused confusion.
So, when people say research things, it isn't always that easy. Some people expect "experts" to be able to give them accurate information.
If I were a consumer, I believe that I did everything right by going to two different dealers, going to the trailer dealer, looking on websites..etc. It still doesn't mean that you will get a proper hook up. Even I was mis-lead somewhat and will be towing a bit over weight this summer, until next year when I can afford a new truck (I ain't made of money).
So for now, I drive careful, kept the trips short this year and will be just fine.
So I guess the point is, we should give those people a bit of a break, after all, we are here to "help" each other right?

[jaycocreek]

I have hauled cattle and sheep. A lot of the ranchers around here have an old semi sitting around, so old they run the old 5/4 transmission which is a son of a gun to learn to drive, especially loaded and on grades. So they rely on local logging truck drivers or old timers to run there cattle. A few hire out.

There better drivers towing because of the vast experience they have on mountain roads/snow and ice/wind and storms and the hours they put in doing it....

No comparison to the common rver in my opinion.

[sacmarata]

Commercial carriers (those requiring state and federal credentials/authority regardless of CDL or not) are safer than non commercial drivers. Across the board every states stats repeat this.
Theres lots of folks hauling commercially (heavier than standard large RV) that arent required to have a CDL. So it even goes beyond the fact that CDL drivers are more educated, commercial drivers in general are more educated.

I only bring this up because of earlier posts questioning if livestock haulers are more educated. The stats reflect they are better drivers, so it can be assumed they are more educated drivers
Thers a lot of carriers out there hauling in excess of 10k lbs that arent required to have CDL.

[shfd739]

fatboy66 wrote:
I went camping in Arkansas last week and watched the procession of 3/4 ton trucks pulling huge 5W's, each sagging badly in the rear. My impression was these guys thought because they have a 3/4 ton diesel, they can tow the world.

I'll bet everyone of them was well overloaded. Scary.

Most are probably like my father in law who thought "I have a 250 diesel pickup and plenty of tow capacity for the trailer" but didnt think about the payload.

He didnt think about his till he asked me my opinion on which toolbox/aux tank combo to get..knowing he has a 250 I told him to hook up the trailer and go make some scale passes to make sure he has enough payload left. Turns out he was fine and loaded with diesel and fiver hes got about 300lbs to spare.

Father in law is a smart guy but it never occurred to him that his big diesel pickup could be overloaded so easily. I bet some of those owners are the same...some also probably dont care though.

[fatboy66]

I went camping in Arkansas last week and watched the procession of 3/4 ton trucks pulling huge 5W's, each sagging badly in the rear. My impression was these guys thought because they have a 3/4 ton diesel, they can tow the world.

I'll bet everyone of them was well overloaded. Scary.

[Lantley]

atreis wrote:
(Not surpringly) I disagree. One can have too much truck: Having more truck than necessary is wasteful, both in terms of money and resources consumed, unless you already have the big truck for other reasons.

It's good that towing is a pleasure. It is for me too.

In terms of resources it's all a waste Ford Ranger or Diesel dually.
None of us have to camp.
In terms of reduced stress and a nice relaxed tow you can't have too much truck.
The guys that tow with HDT's capable of towing 80K loaded trailers do so because they know a 20-30K loaded 5'er will be no challenge for a truck that large regardless of the terrain.
When talking commuter cars less may have advantages. However when talking RV towing more truck beats marginal or adequate any day.

[westend]

atreis wrote:
(Not surpringly) I disagree. One can have too much truck: Having more truck than necessary is wasteful, both in terms of money and resources consumed, unless you already have the big truck for other reasons.

It's good that towing is a pleasure. It is for me too.

Yeah, Ok.

[atreis]

(Not surpringly) I disagree. One can have too much truck: Having more truck than necessary is wasteful, both in terms of money and resources consumed, unless you already have the big truck for other reasons.

It's good that towing is a pleasure. It is for me too.

[Dog_Folks]

MFinCA wrote:
I think that I am too conservative when it comes to towing. My current TT weighs in at 6,000 lbs. fully loaded. My 'Burb (7.4L, 3.73 gears) has a listed towing capacity of 8,000 lbs. It is a great match of TV/TT. I have towed a 7,500 lb. boat with the 'Burb and it towed just fine.

I had a Dodge Ram 1500 (5.9L, 3.55 gears) that I towed the TT with from time to time. That was also within the weight limits. When it came time to trade in a vehicle, I traded in the Dodge--there was simply no comparison between the two--the 'Burb won hands down.

I'll do the same next year when we upgrade our TT/TV combo. I am leaning towards a 5er with a 1-ton dually diesel.

Can't be to "conservative" or have too much truck, within reason. (Towing a pop-up with a semi would be a little too much)

Check my signature. One ton dually towing 8,000 pounds. Towing is a pleasure.

[MFinCA]

I think that I am too conservative when it comes to towing. My current TT weighs in at 6,000 lbs. fully loaded. My 'Burb (7.4L, 3.73 gears) has a listed towing capacity of 8,000 lbs. It is a great match of TV/TT. I have towed a 7,500 lb. boat with the 'Burb and it towed just fine.

I had a Dodge Ram 1500 (5.9L, 3.55 gears) that I towed the TT with from time to time. That was also within the weight limits. When it came time to trade in a vehicle, I traded in the Dodge--there was simply no comparison between the two--the 'Burb won hands down.

I'll do the same next year when we upgrade our TT/TV combo. I am leaning towards a 5er with a 1-ton dually diesel.

[Lantley]

atreis wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

Only difference is the livestock owner/drivers are far more educated and more conscious of what the "correct" tow vehicle should be due to precious cargo.......hmmmmm, you'd think the average RV'er would want to be also, since their family is their precious cargo.

Where is your evidence that they're better educated? If it's that they flip less, that's flawed for the reasons stated above. They could flip less because they're different trailers, not because those who pull them are better educated. There also might be fewer of them on the road, and on average pulled for shorter distances.

Of all the people towing trailers, one could logically assume that those with a CDL are the best educated. They still flip. Not every flipped trailer is the result of a poorly educated owner/operator.

I've yet to see a news story about a flip involving a minivan though. 🙂

Live stock trailers are generally smaller. I would also agree the drivers are generally more experienced.
They are using dedicated work trucks and are not trying to get by with a smaller truck that is also used as a daily driver.
While they may not hold CDL's they are a business operation with the resources and financial backing to do things right.

[noteven]

atreis wrote:
On this topic of livestock trailers: I just had an image of the animals saying to each other, "Okay, everyone move to the right side NOW," followed by, "and to the left side NOW"... 🙂

Well cows say, "I'd like to shove over here and look out this side...oh the view is the same well now I want to turn around and push and shove my way to the other side..."

Or when you are trying to motor away from a traffic light while showing off your 18 speed shifting skills someone in the load of hogs says, "Everybody change places now...." bzzt buzz scraaape says the gear stick...

[atreis]

On this topic of livestock trailers: I just had an image of the animals saying to each other, "Okay, everyone move to the right side NOW," followed by, "and to the left side NOW"... 🙂

[atreis]

rockhillmanor wrote:

Only difference is the livestock owner/drivers are far more educated and more conscious of what the "correct" tow vehicle should be due to precious cargo.......hmmmmm, you'd think the average RV'er would want to be also, since their family is their precious cargo.

Where is your evidence that they're better educated? If it's that they flip less, that's flawed for the reasons stated above. They could flip less because they're different trailers, not because those who pull them are better educated. There also might be fewer of them on the road, and on average pulled for shorter distances.

Of all the people towing trailers, one could logically assume that those with a CDL are the best educated. They still flip. Not every flipped trailer is the result of a poorly educated owner/operator.

I've yet to see a news story about a flip involving a minivan though. 🙂

[rockhillmanor]

atreis wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

You will rarely see accidents with flipped over livestock combos. Compared to daily events of RV's flipping over all across the country.

I strongly suspect this has more to do with center of gravity than anything else. The animals stand, putting all of their weight on the floor. The walls are open for ventilation, and usually made out of lightweight materials and they generally have nothing mounted on the roof. Travel trailers have heavier sidewalls and roofs (insulation, windows, cabinets mounted up hight) and heavy stuff mounted on the roof (AC units). Comparing these is really apples and oranges.

My response was to this statement.

"""I don't think the OEM's consider an RV the worst case scenario. the loads hardly shift and they are relatively easy to tow. Horses, Cows, and other livestock I bet are worse case scenarios.""

Did not say they were the same trailers. Horse trailers are much lower to the ground than a TT. BUT if you have the wrong setup and stupid behind the wheel....they can flip just like any trailer. And in fact the cargo weight will get them swinging faster.

Only difference is the livestock owner/drivers are far more educated and more conscious of what the "correct" tow vehicle should be due to precious cargo.......hmmmmm, you'd think the average RV'er would want to be also, since their family is their precious cargo.